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Disco td5 - ran out fuel - wont start

Discussion in 'Land Rover Discovery' started by lhandrover, Dec 12, 2014.

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  1. lhandrover

    lhandrover Active Member

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    Hi,

    Disco (MRS) ran out of fuel, put in 6lts from fuel can and tried to start it. Turned over but no start - so I may have inadvertantly introduced more air into system. Looked in the handbook and saw procedure - (ig on 30 secs, off 15secs and repeat 6 times trying to start on last 30secs - doesnt start then repeat all steps) Initially at 1st 3 rounds it just turned over, 4th round onwards it sounded as if it was going to run but couldn't quite get to running on its own without the starter assisting. As soon as you let the key off it would stop. Lots of smoke while doing this...
    Eventually called Green Flag - Very nice chap turned up and gave it his best shot but it wouldnt do any more or less than I'd got out of it.

    Towed it to local garage (not LR and they are not familiar with these) where they have tried starting then towing it. They say they got it to run slightly but not sure this was only whilst towing but then it stopped again immediately.

    It was running perfectly immediately prior to this. Any ideas on how this can be purged differently or any other suggestions please (other than don't run it out of diesel of course :D )
     
  2. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    you might need some more fuel to start with, often takes a couple of gallons from empty, they can take some starting after even with plenty of fuel but should go after a good tow or a few mins turning over though a boost pack helps as low voltage will prevent starting even if engines turning over , you can check condition of pump by undoing drain or switch on bottom of filter placing a container underneath and switching on ignition it should pour out continuous if it doesnt either not enough fuel or pump needs removing and screens cleaning or pump replacing
     
  3. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    50,000 bit of a milestone:eek::)
     
  4. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    what handbook did you read though, cos the procedure is completely different, see attachment, what you can do additional to that is to depress the throttle 5 times consecutively after you turned ignition on pos II then the MIL warning will start flashing and wait untill it stops...it will last also around 3 minutes...let the battery on charge over night cos as james said even if it turns over it will not start without plenty of 'juice' cos the starter takes all the power and the ECU will not have enough left to fire the injectors

    EDIT ...just saw that procedure you said in the owner's handbook as i was curious and checked myself... you were rigjht but i'm sure there's something wrong though cos the verified purging procedure is the attached one from the workshop manual...strange
     

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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
  5. lhandrover

    lhandrover Active Member

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    Right, thanks Sierraferry & Jamesmartin - A couple of things to try there. I'll report back on progress..
     
  6. razorheadtom

    razorheadtom Member

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    I have exactly the same problem as you, i've put it down to a blocked air bleed valve in the filter housing. Purging method takes hours to get it going.
    Best way i've found to get it started is tow starting it until you can get a new air bleed valve
     
  7. lhandrover

    lhandrover Active Member

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    Ah thats interesting too - I haven't been able to get access to the LR as its still at the garage. You say you have the same problem, you are not having to tow it each time you want to start it are you? Or once started on a tow it keeps going? The garage did say they had tried a tow with no success - any tips on how far or what gear?:)
     
  8. razorheadtom

    razorheadtom Member

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    Its happened when i changed the fuel filter, took me forever to purge all the air out of it. Second time i had the fuel pump out, took forever to purge again so in the end i got my friend to pull me along about half a mile until mine ran on its own.
    And just a few days ago I somehow ran out of diesel :eek: put 20ltrs in and whilst being pulled home i tried bumping it and it eventually started.

    If the air bleed valve is blocked, which ive heard does happen, the easiest way to get air out of the fuel system is out of the injectors, tow starting is the easiest way, saves the starter and battery :D
     
  9. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but this theory doesnt sound ok to me... you can remove the air bleed valve completely and the engine must start on it's own just few more turns are required, after a filter replacement and a purging procedure the engine must start without towing it no matter how the bleed valve is, cos the fuel mixed with air will go into the tank through the return line... if after a filter change you must bump start it there's some other trouble, or injector sealing, or compression, or timing issue IMO... the air bleed valve is there to not let fuel mixed with air to get into the rail in which case the engine will be harder to start from cold not complete non-starter which needs towing... the air bleed valve is blocked for fuel when fuel gets to it anyway cos that's whow it works, it blocks the fuel and let only air into the pump's bleed line.


    in a nutshell, what ever happens with the air bleed valve the engine must start on it's own, air bleed valve fault will make it harder to start not non-starter...as long as you have a strong battery off course.
     
  10. lhandrover

    lhandrover Active Member

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    the easiest way to get air out of the fuel system is out of the injectors, tow starting is the easiest way, saves the starter and battery :D[/QUOTE]

    Ok great - When you have tried starting on the starter does it feel like its trying to start, ie helping the starter along, or does it just turn with no effect?
     
  11. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    other issue which is quite common for those which are not starting on starter but starting towed it's the starter itself... they used to have strange internal failures which would let them spin but they'll disturb the crank sensor's signal
     
  12. Harold 4x4

    Harold 4x4 Active Member

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    My wife has run out of fuel twice now - unfortunately the new,genuine Land Rover fuel pump doesn't operate the low fuel light...

    So. The key to restarting in my opinion is be patient!! The fuel purging from a completely empty tank can take upwards of 3 mins. There appears to be no benefit in 'pumping' the throtte so I SUGGEST YOU DO THIS:

    After filling the tank with a can of deisel (10 lts is good). Switch on the ignition and leave for at least 3 mins for the pump to fill the fuel filter, and all the pipes necessary between the tank and the injectors. After three minutes turn off the ignition and wait a few seconds. Attempt to start the car with the throttle depressed to three quarters - if it doesn't start do exactly the same thing again until it does!

    It took me two attempts to get mine started and I thought there was a problem. In fact there wasn't I just needed to persist.

    Good luck! ;)
     
  13. ZippyIII

    ZippyIII Member

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    You need more fuel 6lts is not enough to put a level in the tank and fill both stages of the pump, filter and pipes. As Jamesmartin and Sierrafery said give it the 3min purge you will hear the air in the system, may have to repeat that so very little air can be heard, wait a bit turn the key wait for pump to pressure system, throttle down turn engine over and as she fires up slowly back off on throttle. Done it this way after changing pumps and had no problem. You also need a very good battery or booster/jump leads if a lot of attempts have been carried out.
     
  14. Davidleeowen

    Davidleeowen Member

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    Just had the exactly the same on my Disco 11 yesterday (Wife ran out of fuel)

    briefly here is what i had to do

    1) check your battery terminals, mine were both loose and corroded
    2) clean the terminals and charge the battery fully. As someone has said they don't like low voltage batteries !
    3) i did ignition on for 2 mins then off for 2 mins - repeated 5 times
    4) i then did ignition to point 2, then 5 quick full blips of the throttle (within 10 seconds) then left ignition on for 5 mins
    5) i repeated the above 3 times - each time trying to start it, but alas still wouldn't start. Not even a cough

    After all the above the only way i could get it to start was to have the battery fully charged again, and then start and hold it on the starter with the throttle fully depressed.

    it didn't do anything for the first 4 or 5 spins, then it coughed once. Bingo

    repeated several times and each time it coughed more and more.

    I then left it for 5 mins with the ignition on (and pumped the throttle 5 times with 10 seconds as above)

    Next start i held the starter on with throttle fully depressed and it started to cough into life. i held the starter to assist the engine to fire up, for about 4 seconds as it was spluttering into life

    once it took, it was then fine, exactly as it was before.

    Long drive for around 10 mins, and then 100 quid of diesel in it and its been fine since

    Just a note about low fuel quantities someone mentioned below ...... i stuck two normal fuel cans worth in it ..... about 8 -10 liters i guess .... that was enough for me (car on the level)

    good luck

    cheers
    Dave
     
  15. lhandrover

    lhandrover Active Member

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    Thanks all - waiting for chance to try all this when I get access to landy. Clearly not a good thing to run out with these LR's given all the experiences shown above.
     
  16. brian47

    brian47 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm .... there would appear to be a sort of a small connection running through this fred, namely "The wife ran out of fuel".

    Gents, let's get it straight, as I have been informed, the wife never runs out of fuel, it's always our fault for not leaving enough fuel in the tank in the first place ....
     
  17. razorheadtom

    razorheadtom Member

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    The air bleed valve being clogged makes it a hell of a lot harder to purge the system.
    There's usually that much air in mine that turning her over with the starter will flatten the battery before it fires.
    It does sound like it will start after a while, and probably will. But tow starting is just easier.
     
  18. Davidleeowen

    Davidleeowen Member

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    Hi Razorheadtom

    can you point me in the direction as to the air bleed valve being clogged .... sounds like mine had this as took ages to bleed ..... can i remove it and clean it out / replace it etc ? or is it a sealed unit ....

    cheers
    dave
     
  19. razorheadtom

    razorheadtom Member

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    This Link is where I got the info from.

    Hope it helps!
     
  20. Davidleeowen

    Davidleeowen Member

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    Great link .... ill have a good read later cheers !
     
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