Defender 110 vs D3 Dilemma

Hi all, I'm looking for a bit of advice please, apologies in advance for the lengthy narrative. Further apologies if this is a FAQ that crops up every time a newbie comes along.

We plan to buy either a Defender 110, or a Discovery 3, and I'll explain our dilemma. We want it for touring in U.K & Europe, for camping trips, beach trips, perhaps a bit of off road for fun, we do a fair bit of hiking and scrambling, we do lots of outdoor stuff, and have a dog that goes everywhere with us. I have been set on a Defender because it ticks all the above and more, will give us the space we need and offers great options like roof tent, partial camper conversion in the back etc.

But... , the dilemma.
A Disco 3 gives us all of this too, except the partial camper conversion. But it does make a better day runner and it does have better comfort, and refinement.

But...,
The Defender won't suffer the depreciation the D3 will, I'll worry less about the dog trashing the seats. But, it'll rust, and they are easy theft targets. The D3 though can be expensive to run, eats brake pads and discs from what I can tell, and has a lot more that can go wrong.

And then, if I go for the Defender, which engine? 300 or TD5? If I go for the D3, early with lower tax, later with glitches sorted, but high tax.

Budget £10k. We want a long term solution, it's to keep for quite a few years. Any pointers, especially things I've not considered, gratefully received. Especially long term costs and potential longevity of the vehicle itself.
Many thanks in advance.

Have you ever driven a 110? For 10k I would have thought you could get a 110 with a galv chassis and bulkhead but for distance I would have thought a D3 a better choice. Defenders are called tratters for a reason and whilst last year I drove my 90 to Forfar and back in a day (800+ mile round trip) I'm sure it would have been a far more comfortable ride in a D3. My 90 is a 300tdi but a well maintained td5 should give little issues. If you haven't already test drive a 110 and see if you can live with it.

Marmaduke said:

Have you ever driven a 110? For 10k I would have thought you could get a 110 with a galv chassis and bulkhead but for distance I would have thought a D3 a better choice. Defenders are called tratters for a reason and whilst last year I drove my 90 to Forfar and back in a day (800+ mile round trip) I'm sure it would have been a far more comfortable ride in a D3. My 90 is a 300tdi but a well maintained td5 should give little issues. If you haven't already test drive a 110 and see if you can live with it.

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Thanks Marmaduke. I drove a Defender once may years ago from Plymouth to Birmingham, it was a 200 tdi from memory, and best compared to driving an old Bedford van. I've driven many old vans over the years, the unrefined noisy engine doesn't really bother me much (it may bother Mrs Pliers). Is there much difference other than performance between a TD5 and a 200tdi?

Neither. Buy the very best d2 you can find, try and find a late pre-facelift, sort every single problem it has, fully service it, put 5 new tyres on it, buy a nanocom, weld a new rear chassis in, rust proof it, fix the ace and air suspension, have money left for adventures.

D3 - as you've already mentioned is quite possibly a money pit.
110 - again, a target for thieves, not particularly comfortable. Perhaps not everyone's idea of a family car.
D2 - nobody will really notice it, pretty refined, fairly reliable.
That's what I'd do anyway but I've never owned a d2 or d3, and despite owning a 110, never driven one! Also, depends heavily on what work you can carry out on the vehicle yourself.

Just what I'd do if I had a 10k budget to spend on one car with that sort of use in mind.

Pliers said:

Thanks Marmaduke. I drove a Defender once may years ago from Plymouth to Birmingham, it was a 200 tdi from memory, and best compared to driving an old Bedford van. I've driven many old vans over the years, the unrefined noisy engine doesn't really bother me much (it may bother Mrs Pliers). Is there much difference other than performance between a TD5 and a 200tdi?

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TD5 is a more refined engine but the 200/300tdi's are said to be simpler to work on if you plan on doing repairs yourself

Plus the fact you wouldn't hear Mrs Pliers complaining over the engine noise unless she was very very angry in which case your tinnitus would be that bad you wouldn't hear her moaning when you finally stopped anyway

Marmaduke said:

Plus the fact you wouldn't hear Mrs Pliers complaining over the engine noise unless she was very very angry in which case your tinnitus would be that bad you wouldn't hear her moaning when you finally stopped anyway

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Thanks. I can do basic servicing myself, brakes, some electrics, fluids, filters. It's been 30 years since I changed an engine or gearbox though, and I think I'd leave the complex stuff to a local garage.

I guessed the TD5 would be best for me, presumably a bit quicker than the 300tdi too. I do really want a Defender for all the right reasons, I guess it's about being realistic that it's going to take up a few weekends keeping it running right. I know the D3 is an easy option for me, just think it's a bit short term as I'd likely keep the Defender forever and mend bits as they break, it'll be like Triggers broom.

Discokids said:

Neither. Buy the very best d2 you can find, try and find a late pre-facelift, sort every single problem it has, fully service it, put 5 new tyres on it, buy a nanocom, weld a new rear chassis in, rust proof it, fix the ace and air suspension, have money left for adventures.

D3 - as you've already mentioned is quite possibly a money pit.
110 - again, a target for thieves, not particularly comfortable. Perhaps not everyone's idea of a family car.
D2 - nobody will really notice it, pretty refined, fairly reliable.
That's what I'd do anyway but I've never owned a d2 or d3, and despite owning a 110, never driven one! Also, depends heavily on what work you can carry out on the vehicle yourself.

Just what I'd do if I had a 10k budget to spend on one car with that sort of use in mind.

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Thanks for your thoughts, this had crossed my mind and it is a bit of an inbetween solution. I'm assuming that build quality and problems were all ironed out by the time the last ones came off the production line? I wonder whether D1's and D2's are future classics, good ones are definitely few and far between from what I can see.

Well, it wasn't long ago that you could buy mot'd rr clasics for 3 or 4 hundred quid, look where their value is going. Disco 300 tdi will go up in value, I reckon the xs/es models the highest followed by the base ones.

I think it comes down to a very simple question.

1. Do you want a Defender and can you really live with what they offer? i.e. it will always be an unrefined, cramped, noisy vehicle.

Personally I love Defenders, but there is no denying what they are. And you could spank £20k in mods on one and never solve the fundamental issues that make it what it is.

If you want some alternatives.

Santana PS-10, shares a lot with Land Rover (for good reasons), but is arguably a better vehicle than the 110 ever was. You can also get them for about half the price.



Jeep Wrangler JK Unlimited. Trumps the 110 on every metric and is a much better and newer vehicle. They also hold their money like you won't believe (which means you'd probably have to expand your £10k budget slightly). But in return you get a vehicle with a longer history than a Land Rover, just as rugged, better off road but with many of the mod cons and options you get on the D3. Best of both worlds.

Discokids said:

Well, it wasn't long ago that you could buy mot'd rr clasics for 3 or 4 hundred quid, look where their value is going. Disco 300 tdi will go up in value, I reckon the xs/es models the highest followed by the base ones.

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Most cars end up having a following as a classic. The Discovery will be no exception, but lets remember it's only in the last handful of years that classic Range Rover's have moved up in value. And mostly that is the early 3 door variants. The classic Range Rover is also 20 years older than the D1. So it's not unreasonably to say D1's won't really start to move up in value for another 12-15 years, maybe 20. And again it will probably be the 3 door and V8 models that will have the biggest allure.

300bhp/ton said:

Most cars end up having a following as a classic. The Discovery will be no exception, but lets remember it's only in the last handful of years that classic Range Rover's have moved up in value. And mostly that is the early 3 door variants. The classic Range Rover is also 20 years older than the D1. So it's not unreasonably to say D1's won't really start to move up in value for another 12-15 years, maybe 20. And again it will probably be the 3 door and V8 models that will have the biggest allure.

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I mostly agree except that the rr hasn't suffered in the way the disco has in terms of being bought for its engine then scrapped. Currently discos are being scrapped left right and centre just for a bit of running gear. The rr didn't suffer this.

I think RR's did and loads ended up being trials or off road vehicles. The biggest difference is, most Range Rover's were V8's, an engine somewhat more rare in other LR models. So little need or want to use the engine as a donor. Disco's are slightly different in this regard, so I agree lots are vanishing.

Nothing wrong with a TD5 defender for long trips. I've done quite a few as I've documented on here. It depends on what you want. People who've spent a lot of time in modern saloon car luxury seem to find them noisy and harsh. But then compared to cars I was familiar with in the 1980s such as Morris Oxfords, Triumph Herald/Spitfires, Vauxhall Vivas and a Series 2 Forward Control Land Rover, the TD5 Defender seems quite sophisticated. If you're determined to have the saloon car feel then a Discovery is probably closer to what you want.

Compared to 1960s style pushrod petrol engines I thought the TD5 sounded strange and exotic. A centrifugal oil filter and weird electronically activated injectors. But once you've done a service, it all looks reassuringly familiar. The injectors are pretty reliable (they're not made by Land Rover!) but occasionally might need taking out and having their washers and sealing rings changed.

300bhp/ton said:

I think it comes down to a very simple question.

1. Do you want a Defender and can you really live with what they offer? i.e. it will always be an unrefined, cramped, noisy vehicle.

Personally I love Defenders, but there is no denying what they are. And you could spank £20k in mods on one and never solve the fundamental issues that make it what it is.

If you want some alternatives.

Santana PS-10, shares a lot with Land Rover (for good reasons), but is arguably a better vehicle than the 110 ever was. You can also get them for about half the price.

Jeep Wrangler JK Unlimited. Trumps the 110 on every metric and is a much better and newer vehicle. They also hold their money like you won't believe (which means you'd probably have to expand your £10k budget slightly). But in return you get a vehicle with a longer history than a Land Rover, just as rugged, better off road but with many of the mod cons and options you get on the D3. Best of both worlds.

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Love the Wrangler jk, wonderful looking and as you say, provides both rugged and comfort.

Great views from all of you, many thanks. Still the 110 I think. I can cope with the cramped front, I'm only 5' 9, so enough room for me. The noise can't be any worse than all the vans I used to drive in the early 80s, and soundproofing I'm sure can help. It also think I'm more likely to invest in something I can keep long term, let's face it a 110 will never seem dated, it was never fashionable.

TD5 is a lovely engine, but a taller transfer box and a remap could be good purchases.

MJI said:

TD5 is a lovely engine, but a taller transfer box and a remap could be good purchases.

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Thanks for the heads up, it seems that the transfer box is a well recognised are for improvement.

TD5 engine in our Disco facelift is great following a remap, but the 200tdi 90 still puts a smile on the face and you get all manner of goony waves from other owners of 90's and Defenders. Get one of each for a K10 budget. I reckon an equivalent year Disco is a 1/3 of the price of a Defender. I do fancy a TD5 Defender 110 though.

That is a dilemma, not sure which one I would choose!

As you have said the D3 is a lot better vehicle for day to day, I did a driver experience day in a D4 and it was awesome. But then again I have a 90 for camping and trips and in terms of having the back kitted out as a mini kitchen etc it is perfect.

Maybe the 110 then, but go for the TD5, it is thirstier but has more power and sounds great. I have a 300TDi and with it loaded up with the roof tent on it struggles with slight inclines on hills and you spend all of your time changing gear. The higher geared transfer box doesn't help mind. If you got a good TD5 or TDCI, soundproofed the hell out of it and fitted comfier seats it would be fine for what you need it for.