P38 vs Disco 3?

Gord Wedman said:

Driving my P38 is like driving an old truck compared to my 2008 LR3. I do think the seats in the P38 are more comfortable than the LR3 even though I have premium leather. That is about the only thing better.

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In a way this is the defining difference. The P38 drives like a 4x4, a very good smooth and comfy one that "wafts" along very nicely.

Newer models tend to feel like driving large flabby estate cars, as that essentially what they are. Not saying there is anything wrong with that. Many people want more "car like". For me personally, I very much like a 4x4 to feel and drive like a 4x4.

LetsHopeItFits said:

Sorry for my absence, lets answer some questions.
Issues Ive had with the V8? Only one. No idea what it is, hopefully will find out soon as a "specialist" will be having a look. Made me very angry because it broke only a few hundered miles after I bought a set of BFGoodrich KO2 ATs for it (which are currently worth more than the best serious offer Ive had for the whole car)
Inclined to agree on the cost of japanese parts, having owned a subaru...
I wont touch a D2. I dont see any way at all in which its better than a D1 (other than body rust, and mines solid) and I see many ways in which its worse.
I am tempted by a 3.6L VM RRC, which is in need of a bit of a tidy up. On the other hand Im completelly fed up of land rovers (and tbh cars in general) I made the mistake of working out how much Ive spent on my disco in the relatively short time Ive owned it (less than 2 years)

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D1 is a pretty simple vehicle to work on. In many ways you are better off learning and having a go yourself. If you are struggling to run one, then more complex vehicles (unless new with a warranty) probably aren't the way to go for you. As they will all need maintenance and remedial work (pretty much universal, no matter the make or model tbh).

D2 is a good vehicle in its own right. And offers many things over a D1, but it all comes at added complexity. Firstly they have more powerful diesel engines which are much more tunable. The V8 is similar, but the gearbox is superior in the D2. Bigger changes are optional rear air suspension for self levelling if you haul or tow. ACE is also a hugely impressive bit of engineering allowing a D2 to not lean at all in the corners. And of course the clever and sophisticated traction control system. The D2 is also more refined, more luxurious and better specced as a rule.

I'm not saying I'd pick one, but there indeed many reasons why someone might.

As for a 3.6 VM RRC? I assume this is a modified vehicle? Certainly Land Rover never made such a setup. If you are struggling with owning/running a standard factory vehicle. I'd politely suggest a heavily modified vehicle probably isn't the way to go, as it will most certainly need fettling from time to time and likely not with off the shelf components.

Thanks. Main reasons for not buying a D2 imo are the additional electronics (made even more offputting by the fact that a warning light is now an MoT fail). Also worse departure angle and lack of CDL on many examples.
Plus, once the ACE fails it doesnt handle any better, and Ive never had an issue with the gearbox.
With the 3.6 RRC, I believe a dozen or so were done by a company back in the day. I dont see why it would be any more difficult than a 2.4, because they are identical, just with 2 more cylinders (and heads etc)
Im not the only one whos failed to fix my disco, it went to a normal garage before (who I suspect made it worse)

LetsHopeItFits said:

Thanks. Main reasons for not buying a D2 imo are the additional electronics (made even more offputting by the fact that a warning light is now an MoT fail). Also worse departure angle and lack of CDL on many examples.
Plus, once the ACE fails it doesnt handle any better, and Ive never had an issue with the gearbox.
With the 3.6 RRC, I believe a dozen or so were done by a company back in the day. I dont see why it would be any more difficult than a 2.4, because they are identical, just with 2 more cylinders (and heads etc)
Im not the only one whos failed to fix my disco, it went to a normal garage before (who I suspect made it worse)

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So the 3.6 is a VM power plant?
I think the previous poster thought you meant the 3.6 v8 diesel from later cars.

lynall said:

So the 3.6 is a VM power plant?
I think the previous poster thought you meant the 3.6 v8 diesel from later cars.

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Yes, just a 2.4 with an extra 50% and presumably a different turbo etc etc. Relativelty popular with the marine applications.
3.6 TDV8 would be a superb engine if it werent so unreliable and available with a manual...

PowerfullUK on YouTube recently bought a RRC X fire truck in France. It has the VM engine. Their head gasket blew. Have a look at their videos.

Yep, my parents had a Jeep XJ with the 2.5 VM, headgaskets went on that too. Luckily it has individual heads so its a nice cheap job for a mechanic (sarcasm, the repair cost more than the Jeep, iirc).
In theory, the larger lump wont be worked as hard, so should be under less stress. Obviously that depends on the weight of the drivers right foot...

No "cheap to buy" P38 is ever going to be "cheap to run".
People leave them outside in the rain.
Some drivers even use them to trash our beautiful green lanes.
Mud + salt + wet carpets from a leaky sun-roof.
There's a reason why they are "cheap".
Here are some pics of my 1997 4.0SE - I think it's just about acceptable.
The engine is 90k miles and fully serviced.
So it all works.

Just to add some "survivability" info.
(These figures are from various internet sources so not guaranteed accurate).
It would appear that, of all the P38s produced, about 10% are "on the road".
Another 15% are SORN.
So that leaves 75% or so scrapped.
I note that a lot of people seem to have a spare "scrapper" close by, for spare parts.
As with any vintage classic, we are moving towards a two-class system; scrappers and VGC.
So I guess the lesson is that if you buy one in-between those types, you either spend loads of time, effort and money getting it to be VGC, or watch it slip inexorably down the slope to the scrapyard....

LetsHopeItFits said:

Thanks. Main reasons for not buying a D2 imo are the additional electronics (made even more offputting by the fact that a warning light is now an MoT fail). Also worse departure angle and lack of CDL on many examples.
Plus, once the ACE fails it doesnt handle any better, and Ive never had an issue with the gearbox.
With the 3.6 RRC, I believe a dozen or so were done by a company back in the day. I dont see why it would be any more difficult than a 2.4, because they are identical, just with 2 more cylinders (and heads etc)
Im not the only one whos failed to fix my disco, it went to a normal garage before (who I suspect made it worse)

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Several people have asked and you seem to never answer. What is the issue with your current V8 Disco?

If a garage couldn’t fix it, they are probably a rubbish garage tbh. Buy your self a socket set and maybe have a go your self. Usually way cheaper in the long run.

As for the D2. Approach/departure angles only really matter for serious off roading. Are you using the vehicle for that kind of thing? And they aren’t all that different between them anyway.

Also lack of a centre diff lock. Again would only really matter for serious off road use. Casual laning should not be an issue. And it isn’t exactly a difficult thing to retro fit should you really want it.

As for ACE. Well don’t let it fail. It transforms a vehicle.

With regard to the modded RRC. I am amazed you can’t see it would be harder to maintain. Chances are lots of bespoke components to get the engine in and running. Meaning something simple to fix might require a bit of thought and/or fabrication.

The VM engines are also a bit more niche. And no idea what common parts the 3.6 has or not with the 4 cylinder ones.

I’m not saying don’t go for it or that it isn’t an interesting vehicle. But if you can’t maintain and run a factory stock mass market V8 Discovery. You probably stand no chance in hell at successfully running an engine swapped modified Range Rover.

Btw - Land Rover also used the 2.5 VM engine in the RRC. We have one, learnt to drive in it 26 years ago. Nice engines the 2.5, goes better than a Tdi. But not an engine to thrash though.

300bhp/ton said:

Several people have asked and you seem to never answer. What is the issue with your current V8 Disco?

If a garage couldn’t fix it, they are probably a rubbish garage tbh. Buy your self a socket set and maybe have a go your self. Usually way cheaper in the long run.

As for the D2. Approach/departure angles only really matter for serious off roading. Are you using the vehicle for that kind of thing? And they aren’t all that different between them anyway.

Also lack of a centre diff lock. Again would only really matter for serious off road use. Casual laning should not be an issue. And it isn’t exactly a difficult thing to retro fit should you really want it.

As for ACE. Well don’t let it fail. It transforms a vehicle.

With regard to the modded RRC. I am amazed you can’t see it would be harder to maintain. Chances are lots of bespoke components to get the engine in and running. Meaning something simple to fix might require a bit of thought and/or fabrication.

The VM engines are also a bit more niche. And no idea what common parts the 3.6 has or not with the 4 cylinder ones.

I’m not saying don’t go for it or that it isn’t an interesting vehicle. But if you can’t maintain and run a factory stock mass market V8 Discovery. You probably stand no chance in hell at successfully running an engine swapped modified Range Rover.

Btw - Land Rover also used the 2.5 VM engine in the RRC. We have one, learnt to drive in it 26 years ago. Nice engines the 2.5, goes better than a Tdi. But not an engine to thrash though.

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Ive said before, it turns over but doesnt fire, not getting 12v to the injectors. Dont know why.
Yeah I do use it offroad, strata florida, bastard lane etc. Caught the towbar plenty, needed the locking diff plenty, got stuck a few times before I bought the BFGs.
RRCs had no diesels at launch, then came with the 2.4 VM, then the 2.5 VM, then the 200tdi, then a few soft dash ones with the 300tdi.
Im sure (but I dont know for certain) that thr 3.6 VM uses the same gearbox, flywheel, clutch, heads, headgaskets, glow plugs, fuel/oil/air filters, pistons, rods, waterpump, etc etc as the 2.4. The bores, strokes, compression ratios etc etc are the same. The only differences are the block, crankshaft, camshaft, and the injection pump. And the inlet and exhaust manifolds. And the engine mounts. Parts are mostly still available because of its use in boats.

ACE, Ive heard good things. Mclaren use a very similar system in their road cars. But Ive been told that the required parts are no longer produced, so if it breaks, its very expensive/difficult/soon to be impossible to fix.