Crankshaft Position sensor or VANOS?

Hi,

had my generic ODB2 faultcode reader give me a P0011 "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1) fault code that keeps coming back after I clear down each time.

I'm also seeing the following:

1.Car seems to be slightly low on power before 45/50mph but then suddenly 'goes for it' - could be unrelated
2.Sometimes takes an extra few seconds for the engine to switch on when cranking

I have been speaking to somebody who thinks it could be the camshaft position sensor?

Anybody give me some pointers on what to try?

It's a 2004 UK v8 4.4 with LPG and I'm seeing the code on both petrol and gas

thanks

could be VANOS related

they tend to have seals go, search BMW forums seems to be common

Saint.V8 said:

could be VANOS related

they tend to have seals go, search BMW forums seems to be common

Click to expand...

I might try a CPS first in the hope that it works!

I've called around places locally and they've either not heard of VANOS or don't touch them!

(West Mids)

Thanks for the pointer - hopefully it won't come to that!!

Interested to know what you kind people think following my visit today to the local indy:

Got them to pull out the fault codes whilst I photo'd them on the T4 diagnostics .... this is what the ECM gives:

1.Electric thermostat circuit fault (I know what this is and it's now been unplugged)
2.Camshaft control bank 1 fault
3.Lambda control adaption exceeds lower limit bank 1
4.Lambda control adaption exceeds lower limit bank 2

Any ideas on what to investigate? I just hope this isn't the dreaded VANOS and could be something simple like a CPS or suchlike?

Sort the stat problem properly or risk overheating the engine....

The M62 operates at 105-108degC normally, but when you start to load the engine i.e. During acceleration or towing...the system electrically opens the stat further to lower the engine temp to a more respectable level while the engine is working...once you go back to cruising, it closes the stat again to warm the engine back up to 105-108degC...you disconnecting it runs the risk of over stressing the cooling system...

As for the other faults...VANOS systems cans start to rattle on start up and then start rattling every now and then once warm....if yours is a bit noisey it could be that...the M62 will continue torun with VANOS issues, but it will be down a tad on power and be rattly...

Reset the fuel trims and see if the faults return, if they do it could be Air/fuel mixture related due to an air leak...most commonly the PCVvalve diaphragm fails, or the throttle body seal fails...

On the BMW engines, the inlet manifold seals also tend to go brittle and fail too....test is to spray brake cleaner or similar over the various areas while the engine is running...any noticable change in idle could indicate an induction leak that the ECU cant adjust the fuel trims for....

Thanks Saint.V8 - I'll get it checked tomorrow.

I was told the thermostat thing was used to bring the engine up to temp on a cold start and therefore it's not pivotal?! Unless I misunderstood!

I seem to sometimes be down on power and sometimes it feels like it's just waiting to go - think this VANOS thing needs more investigation. I called round a few Land ROver specialists and they either hadn't heard of VANOS or said they don't touch it!

Need somebody nearabouts to the West Mids if anybody can recommend

jaipal2004 said:

Thanks Saint.V8 - I'll get it checked tomorrow.

I was told the thermostat thing was used to bring the engine up to temp on a cold start and therefore it's not pivotal?! Unless I misunderstood!

I seem to sometimes be down on power and sometimes it feels like it's just waiting to go - think this VANOS thing needs more investigation. I called round a few Land ROver specialists and they either hadn't heard of VANOS or said they don't touch it!

Need somebody nearabouts to the West Mids if anybody can recommend

Click to expand...

Before you jump to conclusions and start tinkering with VANOS, take the advice of Saint and fix the stat.

Will do Datatek

This couldn't be causing my Lambda or control crankshaft codes could it?

jaipal2004 said:

Will do Datatek

This couldn't be causing my Lambda or control crankshaft codes could it?

Click to expand...

I don't honestly know, but the first law of diagnostics is to fix the obvious and see what remains. Do the fuel trims after the stat is done and maybe the lambda's will be OK.

Thanks again mate

Stupid question but I know how they adjust the fuel trims on LPG as they're obviously stored in the LPG ECU - I presume it's much the same for the petrol trims? A trip to an independent should do the trick?

jaipal2004 said:

Thanks again mate

Stupid question but I know how they adjust the fuel trims on LPG as they're obviously stored in the LPG ECU - I presume it's much the same for the petrol trims? A trip to an independent should do the trick?

Click to expand...

Usually in the engine ecu set up but I don't do petrol, I'm a diesel head

Datatek said:

Usually in the engine ecu set up but I don't do petrol, I'm a diesel head

Click to expand...

Cheers - thought as much!

I'll have to find somebody capable of doing it - wonder why they'd be screwed in the first place?! Surely these are fixed values from the factory.

From my limited tuning experience (jap cars) you typically only play around with these if you've modified the car - exhausts, decat, turbo and such like :scratching_chin:

If there is an induction air leak..this will throw the Fuel Trims out...and possibly the ECU is adjusting fueling and cam timing to adjust...when it realises no matter what it does there always 'appears' to be more unburnt air in the exhaust than it thinks there should be, it throws codes as it thinks the Lambdas are wrong or the Cam timing isn't changing!!

As for LPG Trims, the usual calibration process is to plug in the LPG software...run the engine on petrol up to temp, and the software measures the fuel injection timing and opening times...it then switches over to LPG and tries to emulate the same sensor readings (Lambda etc) as petrol by adjusting ignition timing and LPG injection pulse and timing....

Thanks Saint.V8 - I have been meaning to get the hoses etc checked as I've readed they are a common failure, especially given the age of the vehicle (MY04).

I had somebody hit my passenger side front wheel yesterday evening so unfortunately the car is somewhat injured - the camber of the wheel is quite negative so need to find out what part of the wheel assembly needs sorting first!

thanks for all your help!!

some bmw's are prone to camshaft sensor faults, ive known crank sensor faults turn out to be a knackered cam sensor before now

Cheers Scotty - it's first on my list, especially as it's an easy diagnosis (will swap the two banks over to see if it follows