1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome To LandyZone!

    LandyZone is the biggest Land Rover forum on the net. We have plenty of very knowledgable members so if you have any questions about your Land Rover or just want to connect with other Landy owners, you're in the right place.

    Registering is free and easy just click here, we hope to see you on the forums soon!

CRACKED HEAD Engine runaway - VOSA investigation

Discussion in 'TD5' started by Bill_H, Mar 14, 2011.

< Previous Thread | Next Thread >
  1. Trewey

    Trewey Cockernee, Pasty munchin bastid.

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Posts:
    20,033
    Likes Received:
    731
    Location:
    Kernow - Near England
    Came across a Seat Leon with a runaway engine the other day.
    The lady driver had panicked and abandoned it in the middle of the road with smoke pouring from under the bonnet and the engine roaring away.
    I managed to stall it for her and pushed it to the side of the road.

    So it's not just Land Rovers - it can happen to any diesel.
     
  2. Shifty1962

    Shifty1962 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Posts:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    The Winchester Club - Englandshire
    Only one I've seen do it was a diesel genny set. It went for about 10 minutes until it seized. No way to stall it, no CO2 extinguishers to flood the intake with, so just had to sit back and watch the show.
     
  3. nick2020

    nick2020 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Posts:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just had the same thing happen to me last night. stopping was easy enough with a manual, had to pull key to stop the engine.

    Did you get any further with VOSPA?
     
  4. Shifty1962

    Shifty1962 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Posts:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    The Winchester Club - Englandshire
    Landrover are well aware of the issues with the early TD5 heads which is why they fitted modified ones to the later engines. Several others (some on this forum) have tried to get them to admit liability but as LR have changed hands so many times I fear you are barking up the proverbial wrong tree.

    Mine had diesel in the oil and it ran for nearly two years like this because I could not afford to sort it. I regularly drained the excess but eventually the oil pump sprocket demon got me and the engine fragged itself. Never got to the runaway stage though.

    Got a lovely new military surplus shiny engine and its now done over 7k miles with no issues. I can put my name to your campaign but the evidence is long gone as scrap or the decent bits sold on.
     
  5. nick2020

    nick2020 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Posts:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    just got the news back from the garage, its new engine time.... not happy, td5 had 80k on the clock, met every service, rest of the landy is tip top. been quoted approx 3k for a new engine and 8hrs labour to install.

    "Got a lovely new military surplus shiny engine and its now done over 7k miles with no issues. I can put my name to your campaign but the evidence is long gone as scrap or the decent bits sold on."

    Where did you source this? was it a td5?
     
  6. Shifty1962

    Shifty1962 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Posts:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    The Winchester Club - Englandshire
    Yep is a fully dressed TD5 including clutch and flywheel and it had 7 (seven) documented miles on it before it was ripped out and put into storage.

    Got it from these guys Hobson Industries : Asset managed parts: saving energy and natural resources. who were very helpful.

    Give them a call and see what they've got as they have a lot of stuff laying around that may be for sale at the right price.
     
  7. Hallbeckengineering

    Hallbeckengineering New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Posts:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Powys
    this problem is a well known one but at the same time, it is the drivers responsibility to check oil and water daily so the rise in sump level should of been evident !
     
  8. Bill_H

    Bill_H New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Posts:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    SOuthampton area
    Nick - it was a TD5 engine, 2005 vintage. Unsurprisingly VOSA passed the complaint back to Land rover to investigate, and guess what - they sent me a picture of the crack and said that it was not their problem, it wasnt a common fault and it was down to mis fueling back in 2006.!!
    I wrote back to VOSA saying that was bo**cks, but they said there was nothing they could do.
    Try writing to VOSA Vehicle safety, vsb@vosa.gov.uk the contact I had there was John Fitch 0117 954 2526.
    I was trying to put pressure on them saying it was a common problem, in the end I bought a new head from Turner engineering with thicker casting. about £1500.
    As for the 'should have been maintained and the level checked' post.
    It was a crack. Cracks happen suddenly. There were no previous symptoms and it pumped about 5 litres of diesel into the sump in a drive to work.
    I challenge anyone to pick that up on regular maintenance.
    Its so obvious that LR are just trying to avoid a recall that would cost £££M.
    They need to be featured on TV - Ive still got the picture of the cracked head, in fact Ive still got the head.
     
  9. tyclyd

    tyclyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Posts:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Near Builth Wells
    I still have my head with the crack on the fuel rail - runaway etc. etc.... managed to get £1500 voucher form Land Rover as a gesture of goodwill however. Count me in if you get anything going from us who have suffered cracked TD5 heads
     
  10. Stainless

    Stainless New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Posts:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Middlesex
    Thank goodness that no-one was badly injured in these frightening incidents. Add my name to the list of TD5 cylinder head complaints, the only way to get Land Rover (or I guess most other manufacturers) to react will be to a "class action". It also keeps the legal expenses down.

    For 3 years my 2003 TD5A Auto D2 leaked diesel fuel into the engine oil. I fitted new injector o-rings and copper washers, no help. I fitted 5 new fuel-injector-units, no help. I kept motoring by changing the engine oil and filters frequently.

    Finally earlier this year I fitted a new Turner-supplied Spanish AMC cylinder head, and the old girl now runs like a dream. Land Rover have known about this problem for many years, just explore all the other LR Forums.

    Some people have threatened legal action, and have received a good-will gesture compensation contribution. Others have received nothing at all. "We do not know of this problem" LR says.

    I would love to know how many replacement Genuine Land Rover and Turner supplied AMC TD5 cylinder heads have been fitted, how can we find out ?

    I think the TD5 / TD5A is a superb engine, it develops its torque at low engine speed, revs well if required, sounds nice, is easy to service, and runs beautifully on a long run, around town, or off road.

    There are many (I guess most of the 350,000 approx production run) that have covered large mileages without any troubles, but we tend not to hear about them. We do hear of the relatively few that give problems, and what problems.

    Cracked or porous cylinder heads, plastic head dowels causing head creep, loose oil pump sprocket bolts, leaking fuel coolers, leaking fuel pressure regulators, broken exhaust manifold studs (mostly due to engine tuning though), engine oil seeping into the ECU through its wiring, hydraulic pipes coming apart, front prop-shaft joint failure, suspension air bags leaking, I guess I have left some out, but that's enough for now.

    It appears to me the later 2003 onwards EU3 TD5A cylinder heads are more prone to cracking and porous problems, so Land Rover seem to have made the problem worse, not better as time went by.

    But we still love our D2s, warts n all, and it would be nice if we could get some recompense for our patience and loyalty, so please add me to that list. I too have still got my old leaky TD5A cylinder head, in fact I have two - but that's another sad story. "Make them into coffee tables" the wife says, "If Top Gear can do it - so can we".
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  11. xat44

    xat44 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Posts:
    474
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    biggin on the bump
    out of curiousity. if engine runaway happens on an auto.
    cant you take the air filter out and stuff a rag in/down the intake hose?
     
  12. Shifty1962

    Shifty1962 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Posts:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    The Winchester Club - Englandshire
    If you've ever seen an engine running on its own oil the last thing you would want to do is get near it let alone start taking bits off. It will be running far in excess of its design speed and any rag stuffed down the intake would likely get ingested. Sometimes a CO2 fire extinguisher aimed at the air intake is effective as long as you're quick and it lasts long enough. But not always!
     
  13. Pommy Pekkie

    Pommy Pekkie Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Posts:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Castleford
    Howdy

    I almost had a similar issue, but luckily read a thread on increasing oil level, so decided to check mine.... Spent 3 months changing the oil roughly every two weeks. Got a replacement head from Turners and had Landrover in Wakefield fit it for me. Still have the cracked head in my garage... Google "diesel in oil" + TD5 and you will see this is a common problem where ever they sold TD5's...

    Tom
     
  14. steve's P38 RR

    steve's P38 RR Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Posts:
    716
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Suffolk

    This is the first thing I thought when reading it, ok the engine will keep running and may put a rod through the block, but if stopping safely is the main thing then netural and brake as normal. then stall it or block the air intake, (but not with your hand it will suck it in)
     
  15. WSLR

    WSLR New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2009
    Posts:
    336
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Wellington, Somerset, UK
    I noticed a new Special Service Message on TOPIx this morning which has something to do with cracked heads around the injector(s). Not had chance to read it yet, but it is there now.
     
  16. WSLR

    WSLR New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2009
    Posts:
    336
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Wellington, Somerset, UK
    False alarm - Looks like they are showing you how to fit injectors correctly without damaging the head...:doh:
     
  17. CharlesY

    CharlesY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Posts:
    7,084
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    BANNED
    For a diesel engine to run, it needs FUEL and AIR.

    If the fuel is reaching the engine out of control, then shutting off the AIR should stop it.

    Seems to me a simple butterfly valve across the air inlet would do the job, operated by a red button on the dash or even simply by turning the key to OFF, but not LOCKED.

    Perhaps that's too easy a solution.
     
  18. cuza68

    cuza68 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Posts:
    341
    Likes Received:
    1
    After what has been said on this ere fred me thinks if you made a kit a lot of peeps might be wanting one.Have had 3 motors do this on me two vans and a class 2 Scania. Now that made a major mess!!!
     
  19. CharlesY

    CharlesY Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Posts:
    7,084
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    BANNED

    It would be SO easy.

    A simple round butterfly valve in the inlet manifold close to the engine, and a STRANGLER knob for the driver to pull out.

    It would do the job.

    The engine breather pipe would NEED to be further away from the engine than the butterfly strangler so the engine could not draw air from there.

    Hmmmm.......
     
  20. cuza68

    cuza68 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Posts:
    341
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sounds like someones brain is kicking in!!
     
< Previous Thread | Next Thread >