Cold start?

Hi all

Having what I think is a cold start issue on my 99 4.0 - battery is fine, starter is spinning like a top, but it won't take and start. Where next to look? Yes it has fuel.... It was fine yesterday and it was equally cold (5deg)

Will have to call the AA unless I can discover the issue

Max

Hi,

Tap the starter with a small hammer (gently) had a escort that did a similar thing ended up changing the starter motor. Sorry I can't help more.

Do you think it needs a tap even if it sounds like the starter is spinning? I thought it might be fuel pump or something not getting fuel into the engine?

josh00mac said:

Do you think it needs a tap even if it sounds like the starter is spinning? I thought it might be fuel pump or something not getting fuel into the engine?

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If the starter is spinning, is it turning the engine over? If it is, forget tapping it. Check the in tank pump runs.

Turn it over for 10 seconds or so, then quickly whip out a plug....if it smells of fuel you have ignition issues, if it is dry you have fuel issues.

What do you mean that it's spinning but won't "take" ? Is the engine turning or just the starter motor ?

Hi all thanks for the responses - had to go away for a few days hence the silence. I got back in the car today (and it is much warmer) and the car fired first time. Was it just the cold stopping it starting? Sounded and felt to me like the starter was spinning but nothing else but difficult to be sure. I would rather get a tired starter or pump etc replaced now rather than it failing when I really need it. I didn't think cold starts was something to worry about on the P38...

I think the questions were to determine if the engine is turning over or just the starter spinning (it sounds like an electric motor spinning) to determine if the sprung drive gear on the starter is stuck.

If the starter is spinning but engine not turning over the drive gear is stuck, if the engine is turning over but not starting then that's something else

I am pretty sure the engine was turning but I didn't want to keep the starter going too long for fear of damaging it. How can I lubricate the sprung starter gear?

Starter is pre engaged type, it CANNOT run unless the bendix is engaged into the flywheel. The solenoid throws the bendix forwards into engagement, only then is the contact made to energise the starter. If the starter is spinning but the engine is not turning over it can only be a failed or failing if intermittent, one way clutch that takes up drive from the starter motor to the bendix.

I am pretty sure the engine was turning

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Ok, so the engine is turning but not firing ?

Thanks wammers. The fact I had to read that twice to understand it scares me. Maybe I'll keep using it until it fails and just start worrying more about the small puddle of coolant forming in the drivers footwell...

josh00mac said:

Thanks wammers. The fact I had to read that twice to understand it scares me. Maybe I'll keep using it until it fails and just start worrying more about the small puddle of coolant forming in the drivers footwell...

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Fit new/recon starter and get your heater O rings changed before your problems get really serious. Simples

Be very concerned about your puddle. Your heater matrix may have failed due to excess pressure in the water jacket. If this is the case (check by squeezing the radiator hoses shortly after start up - shouldn't be solid) then your engine has the classic slipped liner issue.
When I sold my P38 for this issue the buyer stuck some 'iron tight' in the coolant and managed to stop the pressurisation.
Good luck.

A bit pointless to call out the AA. if it isn't a flat battery or reading a fault code they are pretty much useless. Couldn't even change a fan belt on mine and I had spare belt with me. Tool kit was pitiful so he towed me home so I could do it myself.

When they tried the usual bend over and I'll stick it up you renewal quote, the guy kept blah blahing on about diagnostics till I recounted my experience and told him to cut to the chase or I'll walk away.

wammers said:

Starter is pre engaged type, it CANNOT run unless the bendix is engaged into the flywheel. The solenoid throws the bendix forwards into engagement, only then is the contact made to energise the starter. If the starter is spinning but the engine is not turning over it can only be a failed or failing if intermittent, one way clutch that takes up drive from the starter motor to the bendix.

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All the starter teeth are sitting grinning at you, but you can't see 'em ...

at the bottom of the bell housing ...


Had that on an old Wolseley .... bastid thing ...

Dippypud said:

All the starter teeth are sitting grinning at you, but you can't see 'em ...

at the bottom of the bell housing ...


Had that on an old Wolseley .... bastid thing ...

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Old Wolsleys did not have pre engaged starters, the bendix was thrown in by a scroll. If the bendix gear got worn or tight on the scroll they did tend to grind the teeth off the ring gear very efficiently.

wammers said:

Old Wolsleys did not have pre engaged starters, the bendix was thrown in by a scroll. If the bendix gear got worn or tight on the scroll they did tend to grind the teeth off the ring gear very efficiently.

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It is soooooo long ago on a cream over green 15/50 ...

I bow to your greater knowledge ...

I don't like to upset older folk, they start to gnash their teeth and they can do without the hassle ...

Ta muchly ...

Dippypud said:

It is soooooo long ago on a cream over green 15/50 ...

I bow to your greater knowledge ...

I don't like to upset older folk, they start to gnash their teeth and they can do without the hassle ...

Ta muchly ...

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Grandad had one for a while 1500 cc 50 BHP so 15/50. Had the oil pressure of a chip pan and piston rings that may well have touched the cylinder walls once a week if lucky, he fed it EP 90 to stop it blowing up. It gave off a certain odour which could in no way be described as aromatic. No MOT in those days. Worked on a few when i was a lad serving my time. Generally a pretty good motor though.

wammers said:

Grandad had one for a while 1500 cc 50 BHP so 15/50. Had the oil pressure of a chip pan and piston rings that may well have touched the cylinder walls once a week if lucky, he fed it EP 90 to stop it blowing up. It gave off a certain odour which could in no way be described as aromatic. No MOT in those days. Worked on a few when i was a lad serving my time. Generally a pretty good motor though.

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Travelled many miles in one my besty mates Mum bought for a fiver ...

I think it died when the horsehair stuffing in the seats walked off on its own