Buying a newer defender - thoughts?

Hi All,

I'm back here after a long break... sadly, all of the nights working in the rain on my last defender (1995 300tdi) made me fall out of love with it. Since then, I've been running around in a nice chipped saab 9000.

anyway, long-story-short, "standard" cars give me road rage... yet in a landy, I'll happily pootle along at 60/70mph in the slow lane. It's time to get a defender again...

Now I've got a better job, I'm thinking about spending some more money to avoid some of the heartache of the older defenders. The trouble is, my landy knowledge stops at the early 300tdi engine..

AFAIK, Landrover still produced a 300tdi up until 2006 for the MOD, is this my best (most reliable / easy to fix) option?

Or should I be looking at these td5 thingies?

OR..... should I shell out the extra and get a new one? (or nearly new)

My worry with a new one is that I hear the reliability has gone right downhill.

Which ever option I choose, I'll be looking for a 110 hard-top. The option to run on veg-oil would be nice too - which I know the 300tdi was good for. I'd also be looking to make some mods in the back to make a sleeping area, so that might rule out the "new" option.

Anyway, I'd very much value your thoughts, and hopefully you'll help me avoid an expensive mistake.

oh, I should say that it's use will be varied, but at leat 90% motorway driving, and only 10% or so off-road field stuff... I don't do greenlaning or anything like that. As time goes by (in 18 months time or so) the smallholding/field work should increase a bit.

I know a disco/rangie might be more comfortable for some on the motorway, but not for me... Only a defender makes me cruise along in the slow lane with a smile on my face.

Thanks

Adam

oi, you lot! is it because I sold the swamp thing and you haven't forgiven me yet?!!?!

farmershort said:

oi, you lot! is it because I sold the swamp thing and you haven't forgiven me yet?!!?!

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Nope. It's cos you said the word 'saab' on a landy forum.

TD5 or 300tdi for me.

ratty said:

Nope. It's cos you said the word 'saab' on a landy forum.

TD5 or 300tdi for me.

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lol... furry muff


any thoughts between the 2 of them chap?

cheers

Adam

Depends, do you want reliable old stuff or newer german fancy electrics which need more care and attention but give you more power stock

farmershort said:

lol... furry muff


any thoughts between the 2 of them chap?

cheers

Adam

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If you're wanting to run vegie then stick to the 300tdi. If you don't mind running on full fat fuel then I'd go for a TD5. If you're going the TD5 route it'd be well worth budgeting the cost of a nanocom or hawkeye into the cost of getting the vehicle to help with the diy fixing. If you take the TD5 route, try and go 2002 onwards if poss. Most of the expensive TD5 faults were rectified by then.

farmershort said:

Hi All,

I'm back here after a long break... sadly, all of the nights working in the rain on my last defender (1995 300tdi) made me fall out of love with it.

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What sort of things went wrong with your Tdi? Do you think you won't see the same sort of thing on other Defenders?

farmershort said:

anyway, long-story-short, "standard" cars give me road rage... yet in a landy, I'll happily pootle along at 60/70mph in the slow lane. It's time to get a defender again...

Now I've got a better job, I'm thinking about spending some more money to avoid some of the heartache of the older defenders. The trouble is, my landy knowledge stops at the early 300tdi engine..

Click to expand...

Largely a TD5 is identical to a Tdi Defender. There are subtle differences such as one piece door top frames, a slightly more plastic and less useful dash and optional extra's such as TCS and air con.

The major oily bits like gearboxs, axles, transfer box, suspension, brakes and such are all very similar. Chassis is pretty much the same (fuel tank in a different location) and the bodywork all the same (air con equipped ones have different front grill).

The Td5 itself is quite different, it's a modern DOHC unit controlled by an ECU. So it makes it very much a normal engine in the mass market.

In every measurable way the Td5 is a superior engine to a Tdi.

farmershort said:

AFAIK, Landrover still produced a 300tdi up until 2006 for the MOD, is this my best (most reliable / easy to fix) option?

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Yes, but not for all MoD vehicles. So this might not be such an easy option, also many MoD spec Landy's are somewhat basic, and while usually well maintain will have lead a hard life.

farmershort said:

Or should I be looking at these td5 thingies?

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Depends.

In short a Td5 is smoother, makes a better noise, more refined, more power and faster.

MPG is questionable, some say the equal to a Tdi, some worse and some better.

If you go Td5 I'd recommend getting a remap though, the stock LR one is rather pants and really does the Td5 is dis-justice. It's far too on and off, makes it feel sloppy and gutless at low rpms, doesn't optimise power and interferes with the anti-stall capability.

One thing worth considering is TCS, not all TD5's have it, but it's a worthwhile extra that you won't find on any Tdi.

farmershort said:

OR..... should I shell out the extra and get a new one? (or nearly new)

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That's up to you.

Warranty will be nice, but it'll cost you more overall I suspect and while residuals are good, they do still depreciate from new.

Also as the 2.4 has been discontinued, it might be worth waiting to see what this new 2.2 will be like. It's also worth remembering the 2.4 and 2.2 don't actually make any more power than the Td5 and aren't really any more tunable either.

And on a personal note, while the new dash looks quite nice, I still prefer the original 90/110 interior and practicality.

farmershort said:

My worry with a new one is that I hear the reliability has gone right downhill.

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I think the more complex the electronics the more issues. Also I believe the 6 speed box has been the cause of many an issue.

farmershort said:

Which ever option I choose, I'll be looking for a 110 hard-top. The option to run on veg-oil would be nice too - which I know the 300tdi was good for. I'd also be looking to make some mods in the back to make a sleeping area, so that might rule out the "new" option.

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I think you need to focus on exactly what you will be wanting it for and why.

Thanks for all that info!

I don't care much about the fancy electronics... the '95 300tdi 110, and before that, my old '92 200tdi 110 had all of the gizmos I ever needed. Same goes for power really, I *really* don't want enough power to make it feel like the old mid 90's toyota hilux's with the 3.0tdi engine.... that wont help the road-rage thing...

on the other hand, anything that can be done to help the fuel economy situation will help. I remember some discussions from 12 months or more ago about fuel economy of the various models, and they seemed pretty similar. I used to get 29mpg from my 200tdi, and 27mpg from the 300tdi - but to be fair, the 300tdi had a pto winch, and a *huge* reinforced roof rack.

stuff that went wrong with the last one - all age related really: radius arm bushes (and i had no access to press!), transfer box gasket (ok, but messy), panhard rod bush (took everyone I showed it to an absolute age to find out that this was the issue and it made it undrivable), wheel bearings.... lots of wheel bearings... , fuel system crapped out when the pump dissolved into the fuel lines (and the garage that fixed it didn't change the filter, so it happened again!!! pikies!), steering issues, braking issues... all of these problems werein the first 3 or 4 weeks of ownership.... I have no garage, and it was raining A LOT!

in terms of use, I'm clear on how I'll use it, it's just that my use is perhaps outside of the normal:

smallholding work (we're between land at the moment, so have no stock, but hopefully it wont be long till we have some again) - pulling sheep/pig trailers, driving across land full of fencing gear, moving hay bales... etc etc

Campervaning - I don't want a full VW style camper, but I have plans to construct a removeable sleeping platform across the gunwhales in the back... small cooker / sink platform will then be stuck on the rear door, and will fold down for use. All designed to come out / fold away when not needed.

scuba diving - I do quite a bit of this, so I'd be travelling up and down the country, with lots of kit, and again, perhaps sleeping in the landy.

work - current commute is a 160 mile motorway drive on a sunday night, and friday night, and about 10 miles per day in between. so, a total of about 350 miles per week.... then a few more at the weekends.

that's it... think I've responded to all the questions...


thanks again

Adam

Hi All,

I thought I'd resurrect this old thread of mine, as I still haven't taken the plunge back into landy ownership.

My usage needs (as detailed above) have not changed at all in the intervening time. I'm just wondering whether the advice regarding the different ages & engine options has changed at all in the past 2 years.

Now that winter is on it's way I'm thinking about selling one of my tuned saabs and getting back to defender-club. I do miss a defender.

Any updated advice would be great.

Thanks

Adam

farmershort said:

Hi All,

I thought I'd resurrect this old thread of mine, as I still haven't taken the plunge back into landy ownership.

My usage needs (as detailed above) have not changed at all in the intervening time. I'm just wondering whether the advice regarding the different ages & engine options has changed at all in the past 2 years.

Now that winter is on it's way I'm thinking about selling one of my tuned saabs and getting back to defender-club. I do miss a defender.

Any updated advice would be great.

Thanks

Adam

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I would think it still stands, but i'd hurry up getting one as there is a price hike once rumours of snow start flying around

ratty said:

If you're wanting to run vegie then stick to the 300tdi. If you don't mind running on full fat fuel then I'd go for a TD5. If you're going the TD5 route it'd be well worth budgeting the cost of a nanocom or hawkeye into the cost of getting the vehicle to help with the diy fixing. If you take the TD5 route, try and go 2002 onwards if poss. Most of the expensive TD5 faults were rectified by then.

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Mate I've been running CostCo veg oil through my TD5 for the last three months with no issues. Changed out a fuel filter after 100 miles but honestly it did not need doing I was just doing normal service. I'm mixing 2 to 1 veg to derv for the winter so watch this space..

Shifty1962 said:

Mate I've been running CostCo veg oil through my TD5 for the last three months with no issues. Changed out a fuel filter after 100 miles but honestly it did not need doing I was just doing normal service. I'm mixing 2 to 1 veg to derv for the winter so watch this space..

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That's good to know. I can remember there was at least one person running s TD5 on veg all about 4 or so years ago... can't remember who though. Have you been running your TD5 on 100% veg oil through the summer?

Thanks

Adam

TD5 and a re-map and disco transfer box to make it nice when doing the 60-70mph and also will help fuel economy loads.


The 300tdi is great and everything but he TD5 is still better. They sound great and even if you don't really need the power, its nice to have.


the newer ones engines are rattly things to be honest and I would pick the TD5 over them any day. I don't even like the dashes in the Pumas either. Much prefer the late TD5 dash over any of the others as its just the right mix of plain and simple landy workhorse and modern tech