P38A Best AirBags - About to ditch the Coils

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PastyMuncher83

PastyMuncher83

Active Member
Posts
249
Location
South Somerset
Afternoon all and a happy new year and all that,

I am finally about to order the parts required to put my P38 back on air. It was converted to coils not long before i bought it but the ride is shocking so am going back to air as ive previously posted.

Now i will have a few follow up questions regarding the install as i never removed the old bags so not entirely sure whats involved.

But for now, i have rebuilt the compressor, which had a knackered seal/piston ring, surprise surprise. Am about to rebuild the valve block with new o-rings.

I am about to order a set of bags. I was going to order the Arnott Gen2 bags at £395 from P38 Spares, as they offer a lifetime warranty and seem better quality then the dunlop alternative. However i have been reading a lot of bad things about the Gen 2's on here that has put me off, and it seems like the warranty is useless anyway.

I cant stretch the budget to Gen 3's which seem alot better, but can anyone advise on their own experience if i should go for Dunlops or Gen 2 Arnotts, and where is the cheapest place to buy them from?

May even be a free pastie in it for ya...

Cheers,
 
Dunlops, excellent smooth ride and also cheaper. I think I can speak for most people regarding new bags, they all seem to plump for dunlops. When I changed my bags the ones that were fitted were the originals, they lasted 100 thousand miles , so I think it's safe to say they will last you long enough.
 
PastyMuncher83 said:
Afternoon all and a happy new year and all that,

I am finally about to order the parts required to put my P38 back on air. It was converted to coils not long before i bought it but the ride is shocking so am going back to air as ive previously posted.

Now i will have a few follow up questions regarding the install as i never removed the old bags so not entirely sure whats involved.

But for now, i have rebuilt the compressor, which had a knackered seal/piston ring, surprise surprise. Am about to rebuild the valve block with new o-rings.

I am about to order a set of bags. I was going to order the Arnott Gen2 bags at £395 from P38 Spares, as they offer a lifetime warranty and seem better quality then the dunlop alternative. However i have been reading a lot of bad things about the Gen 2's on here that has put me off, and it seems like the warranty is useless anyway.

I cant stretch the budget to Gen 3's which seem alot better, but can anyone advise on their own experience if i should go for Dunlops or Gen 2 Arnotts, and where is the cheapest place to buy them from?

May even be a free pastie in it for ya...

Cheers,
Click to expand...
Dunlops are good enough and come at £225.00 per set from Island retail, less if in the trade. You need to read up on lifetime warranties some are at best a dubious sales pitch. Arnott offer a LIMITED lifetime warranty. Pay more attention to the limited rather than the lifetime. Some say they are slightly better on ride than Dunlops but i doubt they are £170 better.
 
Thanks chaps i may be jumping the gun but want to try and do the swap this weekend so have just ordered a set of dunlops and the fitting kit/pins from island.

I've found several guides on how to remove the bags and fit coils but none the other way around. I think It's simple enough to fit the bags but I'm stuck on one thing.

I will be doing one corner at a time, Jack the car up ect, remove the coil, insert bag....but then I've read I need to at least partially inflate the bag before removing the Jack and dropping the weight of the car onto it.

How is best to go about this? Bearing in mind my eas system hasn't run for almost 2 years so should be de-pressurised. I will pull the drain plug from the air storage unit before I do anything else just to be sure.
 
PastyMuncher83 said:
Thanks chaps i may be jumping the gun but want to try and do the swap this weekend so have just ordered a set of dunlops and the fitting kit/pins from island.

I've found several guides on how to remove the bags and fit coils but none the other way around. I think It's simple enough to fit the bags but I'm stuck on one thing.

I will be doing one corner at a time, Jack the car up ect, remove the coil, insert bag....but then I've read I need to at least partially inflate the bag before removing the Jack and dropping the weight of the car onto it.

How is best to go about this? Bearing in mind my eas system hasn't run for almost 2 years so should be de-pressurised. I will pull the drain plug from the air storage unit before I do anything else just to be sure.
Click to expand...

You really do need to partially inflate bags before dropping car onto them. Or they may not fold properly over themselves and buckle, then when inflated pull off the top location collar. Best to get system running a making air before fitting them or of course they can be partially inflated with an air line. You don't need a lot of pressure in them just enough to expand them slightly to allow them to fold over themselves properly. Don't under any circumstances put air in them unless they are fitted to car or you will have a cap disappearing over the fence into next doors garden.
 
PastyMuncher83 said:
I've found several guides on how to remove the bags and fit coils but none the other way around.
Click to expand...
Any chance you could do a bit of a write up? I'm particularly interested in the electrical side. What is done when converting to springs? I too want to go back to air but would really like to know how to switch between the air system and the 'EAS manual' that it runs on when on springs. I need to get everything working (sensors, compressor etc.) first so need EAS on and then switch it off and be able to continue running on springs in the meantime ... thanks
 
plumbfisher said:
Any chance you could do a bit of a write up? I'm particularly interested in the electrical side. What is done when converting to springs? I too want to go back to air but would really like to know how to switch between the air system and the 'EAS manual' that it runs on when on springs. I need to get everything working (sensors, compressor etc.) first so need EAS on and then switch it off and be able to continue running on springs in the meantime ... thanks
Click to expand...

You should find a wiring harness maybe plugged into the ECU that sets EAS manual for coils. Like this. http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/coil-bypass-loom-da4136eas-p-17929.html Or there are a couple of pins on the ECU that can be bridged to give the same effect. Have a look which you have. All you need to do to disable EAS is remove the delay relay.
 
I think my bypass loom/eas manual wiring goes into the BECM under the seat. I will take photos and do a write up after although I like your idea of being able to switch back as I'm going to have to go all in and fit the bags, fire up the system and cross my fingers to see what's going to happen!

I am stuck as to how I can get air into each bag tho before dropping the weight of the car on them. I see no point in charging the system with air first as there will be 4 open hoses that should be connected to bags but won't be.
If I fit the bag then squirt some air in from an airline, attach the factory air feed pipe whilst letting as little escape as possible in the process will the air in the bag then just travel up the pipe and render this approach useless?
 
wammers said:
Dunlops are good enough and come at £225.00 per set from Island retail, less if in the trade. You need to read up on lifetime warranties some are at best a dubious sales pitch. Arnott offer a LIMITED lifetime warranty. Pay more attention to the limited rather than the lifetime. Some say they are slightly better on ride than Dunlops but i doubt they are £170 better.
Click to expand...
+1 ^^^^^^
 
Apologies if that last post didn't make much sense half concentrating due to being at work it will never catch on!

What I meant was does the push fitting collet on the airbag acts as a non return valve? Ie I can push fit a length of tube into it, partially inflate the bag, then push in the collet remove the tube/hose and the air will remain in the airbag?
 
PastyMuncher83 said:
Apologies if that last post didn't make much sense half concentrating due to being at work it will never catch on!

What I meant was does the push fitting collet on the airbag acts as a non return valve? Ie I can push fit a length of tube into it, partially inflate the bag, then push in the collet remove the tube/hose and the air will remain in the airbag?
Click to expand...

No it is just a connection. When you have pressure in the bags you will find the plastic pipe can be pushed in a little further than without pressure in them do that you get a better seal.
PastyMuncher83 said:
I think my bypass loom/eas manual wiring goes into the BECM under the seat. I will take photos and do a write up after although I like your idea of being able to switch back as I'm going to have to go all in and fit the bags, fire up the system and cross my fingers to see what's going to happen!

I am stuck as to how I can get air into each bag tho before dropping the weight of the car on them. I see no point in charging the system with air first as there will be 4 open hoses that should be connected to bags but won't be.
If I fit the bag then squirt some air in from an airline, attach the factory air feed pipe whilst letting as little escape as possible in the process will the air in the bag then just travel up the pipe and render this approach useless?
Click to expand...

You do not need to charge the system with air, just make sure the compressor runs and air is available when needed.
 
PastyMuncher83 said:
I think my bypass loom/eas manual wiring goes into the BECM under the seat. I will take photos and do a write up after although I like your idea of being able to switch back as I'm going to have to go all in and fit the bags, fire up the system and cross my fingers to see what's going to happen!

I am stuck as to how I can get air into each bag tho before dropping the weight of the car on them. I see no point in charging the system with air first as there will be 4 open hoses that should be connected to bags but won't be.
If I fit the bag then squirt some air in from an airline, attach the factory air feed pipe whilst letting as little escape as possible in the process will the air in the bag then just travel up the pipe and render this approach useless?
Click to expand...

Basically all the loom does is set the EAS to crawl mode when you would get EAS manual message. But does not activate EAS or the bells and whistles when speed exceeds 25 MPH.
 
You can get an emergency inflation kit from eBay. Fits at the valve-block end. You could fit that to pump them up with a small compressor (little by little as you lower it.) If you imagine rotating the valve-block through 90 degrees so the pipes go in on top then the 4 pipes for the bags are in the corners the bags are on the car, if you follow me. There's a picture somewhere.
 
Ok thanks, the trouble I've got is I can only fit one bag at a time.

Meaning one coil off one bag on and for the first one I change it will mean the other 3 airbag feed pipes will be left open until I've dropped the weight on the first back and then onto the next corner to do the same.

If I inflate a bag once installed then fit the factory airpipe to it whilst it's still got air in it, when I remove the jacks from that corner will it dispel all the air from that bag? I'm guessing so.

Which means the only way you could do it is to lift the body and change all 4 bags at once. Fire up the cars eas/pneumatic system to inflate all 4 bags and then remove the jacks.

If this is the case I'm buggered as I don't have enough jacks or axle stands
 
Ok I think I follow you Grrrrrr, what you mean is by using this schrader valves I could pump up each corner individually as I went along replacing each coil with a bag?

Apologies it's hard to get the concept across using text, but I think that's the way to go! Nice one.
 
PastyMuncher83 said:
Ok I think I follow you Grrrrrr, what you mean is by using this schrader valves I could pump up each corner individually as I went along replacing each coil with a bag?

Apologies it's hard to get the concept across using text, but I think that's the way to go! Nice one.
Click to expand...


Valve block is sealed until solenoid is energised - so you could try buying standard 6mm airline non return valves as you do one at a time.
 
I fitted Arnott Gen2 Bags to the 2001 v8 p38 last year and didn't notice any real difference in handling from the original dunlops.
But the reason for going for arnotts I had them on the disco 2 before the chassis snapped.
My previous P38 97 Diesel I replaced the dunlops after buying the oil burner then again 3 years later as they started splitting but that was after 45,000 miles mostly motorway towing and a bit of offroading when the disco was broke.
At the end of the day its all down to cost I am hoping the arnotts last longer than the dunlops to justifie the extra cost
 
Falk said:
Valve block is sealed until solenoid is energised - so you could try buying standard 6mm airline non return valves as you do one at a time.
Click to expand...

Ah bugger, I'm beginning to see why there is no write ups for coil to bag conversions!!

Is that 6mm id? And where would you ideally fit the non return valves?

Problem is even if you got to a point where you've fitted all 4 bags primed with air and are ready to fire up the system. But you would then need to remove the one way valves and or attach the oem pipes to the bags whilst they were under the load of the cars weight whilst preventing the bags from leaking the primed air. This is the catch 22 I was worried about but I'm sure there must be away around it.
 
Discocrazy2 said:
Also I had a relative send them direct from the states so it helped with the cost.
Click to expand...

Good to know, have committed to the dunlops now. Will see how it goes.

This is also on a 2001 V8, a 30th anniversary.

It's been on coils since it came into my ownership and have never experienced a P38 on air so hoping it will sort the handling out! It's verging on dangerous at motorway speeds on the coils.

Have had 2 classics b4 this and the handling was head and shoulders above this P38 on coils, I'm sure it will be worth the aggro as will be selling up and going back to a classic if not!
 
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