Belt, gears but why not a chain?

Turboman · Mar 7, 2018

jamesmartin said:
i cant say for sure but not the best i think, but i cant remember whether it was gear quality or securing to the shafts that was the issue

Likewise with the Essex. It was some time ago, and I can't remember what actually happened, if it was the plastic bit broke up, or the steel ring started slipping on the plastic inner.

jamesmartin · Mar 7, 2018

Turboman said:
Likewise with the Essex. It was some time ago, and I can't remember what actually happened, if it was the plastic bit broke up, or the steel ring started slipping on the plastic inner.

i still see one of the customers who had the kit fitted ill ask him next time i see him

dieseldog69 · Mar 7, 2018

jamesmartin said:
i still see one of the customers who had the kit fitted ill ask him next time i see him

Was that on a 200Tdi or a 300Tdi James?

jamesmartin · Mar 7, 2018

dieseldog69 said:
Was that on a 200Tdi or a 300Tdi James?

his was a 200 tdi i think, i remember thinking he could have given me the work of fitting the kit when he had said he had it fitted, but he came back to have it removed

boguing · Mar 8, 2018

I've got chain in the Alfa (ex GM) V6. Engine out job to change that one, so I'm changing engine oil every five minutes and think that I'll sell before it gets near the due mileage. Unless I'm still in as much love with it's handling and exhaust music.

The Jag V12 engine for the project is a different problem. I've got it stripped enough that a chain and tensioner change wouldn't be that big a deal as far as time is concerned, but new production tensioners seem to be about £250 - although I did discover that it was actually a Saab unit bought in by Jaguar. Snag is that I haven't yet found where to buy one. Must find a Swedish Saab forum.

I'm a bit paranoid though. Belt failed well under change mileage on a lovely Alfa 156 and wrecked the whole engine. Two cars later, the belt slipped on the 200tdi SIII a few days after I bought it, and had just ordered a belt for preventative maintenance. Got away with a couple of slightly bent valves and pushrods with one broken follower.

dieseldog69 · Mar 8, 2018

boguing said:
I've got chain in the Alfa (ex GM) V6. Engine out job to change that one, so I'm changing engine oil every five minutes and think that I'll sell before it gets near the due mileage. Unless I'm still in as much love with it's handling and exhaust music.

The Jag V12 engine for the project is a different problem. I've got it stripped enough that a chain and tensioner change wouldn't be that big a deal as far as time is concerned, but new production tensioners seem to be about £250 - although I did discover that it was actually a Saab unit bought in by Jaguar. Snag is that I haven't yet found where to buy one. Must find a Swedish Saab forum.

I'm a bit paranoid though. Belt failed well under change mileage on a lovely Alfa 156 and wrecked the whole engine. Two cars later, the belt slipped on the 200tdi SIII a few days after I bought it, and had just ordered a belt for preventative maintenance. Got away with a couple of slightly bent valves and pushrods with one broken follower.

I had a belt snap on my old 1.8 diesel Fiesta, had only been changed 4000 miles earlier, genuine Ford kit and everything

Needed a whole new head and a piston

Turboman · Mar 9, 2018

boguing said:
I've got chain in the Alfa (ex GM) V6. Engine out job to change that one, so I'm changing engine oil every five minutes and think that I'll sell before it gets near the due mileage. Unless I'm still in as much love with it's handling and exhaust music.

The Jag V12 engine for the project is a different problem. I've got it stripped enough that a chain and tensioner change wouldn't be that big a deal as far as time is concerned, but new production tensioners seem to be about £250 - although I did discover that it was actually a Saab unit bought in by Jaguar. Snag is that I haven't yet found where to buy one. Must find a Swedish Saab forum.

I'm a bit paranoid though. Belt failed well under change mileage on a lovely Alfa 156 and wrecked the whole engine. Two cars later, the belt slipped on the 200tdi SIII a few days after I bought it, and had just ordered a belt for preventative maintenance. Got away with a couple of slightly bent valves and pushrods with one broken follower.

Never had an Alpha, but on a Saab, it is actually possible to wind in a replacement cam chain with a split link in it, and join it using the link.
It says in the genuine manual that you should not do this, but I did, and had no problems with it. And, judging by the fact that split link chains are sold, quite a lot of other people must have done it too.

If the Jag engine is actually a Saab, try phoning Swedish and German, they are a company specialising in Swedish and German parts, but at much reduced prices.
I found them very helpful when I had my Saabs.

flat · Mar 9, 2018

Turboman said:
Never had an Alpha, but on a Saab, it is actually possible to wind in a replacement cam chain with a split link in it, and join it using the link.
It says in the genuine manual that you should not do this, but I did, and had no problems with it. And, judging by the fact that split link chains are sold, quite a lot of other people must have done it too.

If the Jag engine is actually a Saab, try phoning Swedish and German, they are a company specialising in Swedish and German parts, but at much reduced prices.
I found them very helpful when I had my Saabs.

Do you mean GFS?

German, French and Swedish car parts.

Great company, kept many of my euros.hit boxes on the road long after they should have been scrapped lol

Turboman · Mar 9, 2018

flat said:
Do you mean GFS?

German, French and Swedish car parts.

Great company, kept many of my euros.hit boxes on the road long after they should have been scrapped lol

The French bit may be a recent addition, it is about 10 years since I had a Saab.

boguing · Mar 9, 2018

Turboman said:
Never had an Alpha, but on a Saab, it is actually possible to wind in a replacement cam chain with a split link in it, and join it using the link.
It says in the genuine manual that you should not do this, but I did, and had no problems with it. And, judging by the fact that split link chains are sold, quite a lot of other people must have done it too.

If the Jag engine is actually a Saab, try phoning Swedish and German, they are a company specialising in Swedish and German parts, but at much reduced prices.
I found them very helpful when I had my Saabs.

Aarggggggghhhn - sacrilege... What are you trying to do? You can't call an Alfa an Alpha! And to suggest that a Jag V12 engine could ever have come out of Sveeden!

Jag bought in the tensioner (as Saab may have too). Yes, being a V the chain splits, so winding a new one is easy. The tensioner is supposed to be a head and sump off job, but I reckon that it's wiggleable with a bit of luck and plenty of bent welding rods.

But yes, I'd heard of them (in the original guise, and ta to @flat for the new name) and I'll try them.

Turboman · Mar 10, 2018

boguing said:
Aarggggggghhhn - sacrilege... What are you trying to do? You can't call an Alfa an Alpha! And to suggest that a Jag V12 engine could ever have come out of Sveeden!

Jag bought in the tensioner (as Saab may have too). Yes, being a V the chain splits, so winding a new one is easy. The tensioner is supposed to be a head and sump off job, but I reckon that it's wiggleable with a bit of luck and plenty of bent welding rods.

But yes, I'd heard of them (in the original guise, and ta to @flat for the new name) and I'll try them.

Sorry. I know nothing of Alfas, or Jaguars. Have had a few Saabs, though, and found them quite good.

Best of luck with Swedish French and German.

Kev12 · Mar 10, 2018

Just to help out with an acronym, its GSF car parts

oldskool · Mar 16, 2018

Turboman said:
What was the quality of the gears like?

At one time, there was a problem with the timing gears on V6 Essex engines. They were plastic, with a ring of steel around the outside with the teeth on.
An upgrade kit with all steel gears solved the problem in that case.

Weren't they steel/cast gears with fiber/nylon teeth on the cam gear?

Seem to remember back in the day when changing the fuel pump care had to be taken not to screw the studs in to far as they would hit the gear teeth

I think also it was the fiber/nylon part coming off that was the problem when revving high im sure that was the reason for all metal gears over metal/nylon, the nylon/fiber was used to make them quieter. Same as the 2.3/2.8 Cologne engines which also suffered the same problem of the cam gear failing when revved high.

Turboman · Mar 16, 2018

oldskool said:
Weren't they steel/cast gears with fiber/nylon teeth on the cam gear?

Seem to remember back in the day when changing the fuel pump care had to be taken not to screw the studs in to far as they would hit the gear teeth

I think also it was the fiber/nylon part coming off that was the problem when revving high im sure that was the reason for all metal gears over metal/nylon, the nylon/fiber was used to make them quieter. Same as the 2.3/2.8 Cologne engines which also suffered the same problem of the cam gear failing when revved high.

Thanks, oldskool.

Should have remembered your extensive Ford experience.

Now you remind me, all that would be about right.

MJI · Mar 20, 2018

Saab engine was based on the Triumph 1850 & 2.0 engine.

boguing · Mar 20, 2018

MJI said:
Saab engine was based on the Triumph 1850 & 2.0 engine.

I didn't know that, I'd heard of the slant engine too. Unfortunately the bit I need is from the H engine and Saab brought in a new tensioner for that, although I still doubt that it was made by Jaguar.

Must head off and join a Saab forum.

dieseldog69 · May 11, 2018

I've got a bee in my bonnet.

Found these guys http://www.cross-morse.co.uk/index.asp

They make this type of stuff.

http://www.cross-morse.co.uk/inverted_tooth.asp

I've emailed them some photos of the 200Tdi timing set up and explained what I am looking for and asked if they could help.

We'll see hey.

Belt, gears but why not a chain?

Turboman

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jamesmartin

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