Belt, gears but why not a chain?

Turboman said:

I would guess that was due to poor design of that particular set-up.

I haven't found tractors to be noisy either, or the gear driven engines on boats. And, as i posted earlier, I have a feeling BMW engines are gear driven.

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no neither have i ,i dont think it was a particularly good kit ,was the best thing suddenly then died quickly as a fad

jamesmartin said:

helical a std, it might have jad something to do with the size of the timing chest large for gears as it was designed to accommodate a belt

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Yes, timing case might be amplifying the sound, as it wasn't designed for gears.

Could be, I suppose to do the job properly you'd need a nice compact timing chest too and then it's a very expensive kit

Kev12 said:

Could be, I suppose to do the job properly you'd need a nice compact timing chest too and then it's a very expensive kit

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Heavy, compact timing case, with plenty of oil swimming around the gears should keep it quiet.

Gears work well with pushrods but not so easy for OHC.

Chains require living inside the engine for lubrication.

Belts are handy for engine designers and are generally quiet and easy to change.

Imagine the chains or gears for a quad cam V engine?

Done the belt on a 24 valve V6 a few times, was £100 for the kit including tensoner, but the same engine in wrong wheel drive configuration was an absolute nightmare to change, whereas I just sat on the scuttle on mine.

Nonos

single row chains
fibre gears
very long belt change intervals

All have contributed to scrapping engines.

I have had
chain driven DOHC S2 S4, SOHC S5, OHV S4,
belt SOHC S4, DOHC S4, quad cam V6
gears no idea
none 1 single

MJI said:

Gears work well with pushrods but not so easy for OHC.

Chains require living inside the engine for lubrication.

Belts are handy for engine designers and are generally quiet and easy to change.

Imagine the chains or gears for a quad cam V engine?

Done the belt on a 24 valve V6 a few times, was £100 for the kit including tensoner, but the same engine in wrong wheel drive configuration was an absolute nightmare to change, whereas I just sat on the scuttle on mine.

Nonos

single row chains
fibre gears
very long belt change intervals

All have contributed to scrapping engines.

I have had
chain driven DOHC S2 S4, SOHC S5, OHV S4,
belt SOHC S4, DOHC S4, quad cam V6
gears no idea
none 1 single

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Agree with all of that, except there are plenty of gear driven OHC about. Should be easier to remove the head than chain or belt on OHC.

MJI said:

.........

Imagine the chains or gears for a quad cam V engine?
.......

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Get yourself onto any Honda VFR owners forum, you’ll be fighting off dewy eyed old farts bemoaning the loss of gears on the 800 v four engine..... probably me included if pushed.... ;-). Cheers, A

agew said:

Get yourself onto any Honda VFR owners forum, you’ll be fighting off dewy eyed old farts bemoaning the loss of gears on the 800 v four engine..... probably me included if pushed.... ;-). Cheers, A

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Not only there.
The old boys that taught me diesel fitting would be turning in their graves if they knew diesels are now made with plastic belts.

The depth of the timing chest on a 200 could have been a factor due to the water pump running through the timing case & cover, but no reason a deeper cast ally case cover with ZEUS emblazoned on it couldn't have been made to incorporate an extra half inch on the gears to make them helical IMHO.

I still think a 4 row Morse chain running in EP90 like the BW transfer cases would be an optimum solution & relatively low cost, a chain for a BW transfer case is only £240, fit and forget......

dieseldog69 said:

The depth of the timing chest on a 200 could have been a factor due to the water pump running through the timing case & cover, but no reason a deeper cast ally case cover with ZEUS emblazoned on it couldn't have been made to incorporate an extra half inch on the gears to make them helical IMHO.

I still think a 4 row Morse chain running in EP90 like the BW transfer cases would be an optimum solution & relatively low cost, a chain for a BW transfer case is only £240, fit and forget......

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the zeus gears were helical, the chain in the borg warner runs in atf

My lancia beta coupe engine was written off cos of a belt failure, I've not trusted the things since. I know of several cases of belts snapping but I've never heard of a chain doing the same.

Col

I can only presume Zeus made this kit as a cure for early 300 tdi cam belt wear issues. ( the cam belt kit was later changed).
Or they made it for people who think cam belts are evil scary things from the future.

K14 said:

Or they made it for people who think cam belts are evil scary things from the future.

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Yes. sensible people, who know that the modern motor industry is run by accountants, not engineers.

jamesmartin said:

the zeus gears were helical, the chain in the borg warner runs in atf

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Every pic I've ever seen shows them in a way that makes them look like they're straight cut and the reports of noise suggest anything but helical gear sets.

I learned something new about a BW Morse chain today

Turboman said:

Yes. sensible people, who know that the modern motor industry is run by accountants, not engineers.

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You only need look at machines from the likes of CAT, still the market leader in mass excavation 360s and high power dozers, but they are the same way built down to a price not up to a specification.

dieseldog69 said:

Every pic I've ever seen shows them in a way that makes them look like they're straight cut and the reports of noise suggest anything but helical gear sets.

I learned something new about a BW Morse chain today



You only need look at machines from the likes of CAT, still the market leader in mass excavation 360s and high power dozers, but they are the same way built down to a price not up to a specification.

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just the angle in the pics perhaps,this one shows the helical cut

Yes, that angle demonstrates it perfectly. I still fail to see what they got wrong with the gear sets that made them so unpopular and prone to failure?

dieseldog69 said:

Yes, that angle demonstrates it perfectly. I still fail to see what they got wrong with the gear sets that made them so unpopular and prone to failure?

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Could be the answer lies in this thread. People have become used to belts, and think they are an acceptable solution.

Myself, I don't.

dieseldog69 said:

Yes, that angle demonstrates it perfectly. I still fail to see what they got wrong with the gear sets that made them so unpopular and prone to failure?

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i cant remember exactly i just removed the kits and refitted belts usually after a failure ,noise was given as another issue

jamesmartin said:

i cant remember exactly i just removed the kits and refitted belts usually after a failure ,noise was given as another issue

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What was the quality of the gears like?

At one time, there was a problem with the timing gears on V6 Essex engines. They were plastic, with a ring of steel around the outside with the teeth on.
An upgrade kit with all steel gears solved the problem in that case.

Turboman said:

What was the quality of the gears like?

At one time, there was a problem with the timing gears on V6 Essex engines. They were plastic, with a ring of steel around the outside with the teeth on.
An upgrade kit with all steel gears solved the problem in that case.

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i cant say for sure but not the best i think, but i cant remember whether it was gear quality or securing to the shafts that was the issue