Automatic gear box knackered - advice :)

Good job dude glad you have a working car again. You guys should check out some of the rover75 forums as this had the same box. Infact it was my 75 that put me off getting an auto freelander after the box showed a few issues.

Interesting to note that rover did not advise changing the trans fluid and LR do.

roccotune said:

Good job dude glad you have a working car again. You guys should check out some of the rover75 forums as this had the same box. Infact it was my 75 that put me off getting an auto freelander after the box showed a few issues.

Interesting to note that rover did not advise changing the trans fluid and LR do.

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Don't know where you got that from. Rover's service schedule for the 75 /ZT models showed the ATF to be changed at Service D, which was every 60k.

You could be correct about MGR listing a change at 60k ( I think I may even have the rover tech sheet I could post) but I know a lot of 75 owners where this was not done and at best it means that half the fluid is changed as hippo says. Then when the cars falls out of the dealer network there is a belief that the fluid change can only be done by a dealer and it puts people off doing it, just wanted to pass on my experience of the auto boxes really, mine was ok just didn't think it was cut out for 4x4 work - although it likely is and I was just scared!

If you guys want to keep the box in top condition change the fluid more often or atleast do it twice at the 60k interval to get as much new fluid in as possible would be my advice. Fluid is available from rimmed bros as it's a special one.

Cheers

LZ worked out how to do the jatco oil change over here: http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/jatco-automatic-gearbox-69336-5.html Long thread, but full of info from different earthlings. Some tips came from the mg rover forum.

It's stated on the factory checksheet as you mentioned - I have a copy of it here for reference. It's dangerous to assume a dealer will do it (as you also mentioned), partly because they won't do anything if they can get away with it, and partly because for trickier jobs like repairing the JATCO unit I don't know of any that could or would do it in-house, they would ship it out to a specialist and then charge the owner double the price. Thieving gits. The best advice I have seen for them is from the 75 Owners Club, plenty on there do the ATF change themselves.

Few garages repair auto's. Thats why they like replacing them with recon's. Too specialist to repair them. Why have the hassel when an exchange is available.

The reason why the fluid level must be checked between 35-45 deg. C is because of entrained air caused by the thrashing the oil receives in the torque convertor. The bubbles make a significant difference to the perceived volume of the oil. Also since for air V2= V1*T2/T1 the volume of the air changes much more quickly than that of the oil and will cause the percieved volume to increase rapidly with temperature. However the volume of the entrained air is also dependent upon the pressure.

Thus my reading of the situation is this:-
With the gearbox cold and the engine stationary the oil will de-froth and there will be little entrapped air. Thus the oil level will be low and if filled to the check level it will be overfilled when running.
With the gearbox running and over-temperature the entrapped air with cause the fluid to "expand" significantly and will register over-full if the level is checked.

Presumably development tests showed that the correct level would be obtained only between the stated temperatures.
(PS. Hope the equation reads OK as I cant see it until its printed)

Note my fluid was done at around 70K. Felt smoother and better mpg but hasn't saved box going at 91K. Apparently the replacement piston is uprated as it's a common fault.

Martin Lowe told me they can go as low as 30k - but again some may get lucky and last the lifetime.

Before the failure I was using it 1-3 in steptronic for two weeks during snow - not sure if that helped it on its way.

I was told by the stealer that they would only do the level check after having the car overnight. Reason being, the car would be cold throughout the auto/engine etc. Then the warm up cycle could be used to increase the temp to 35 - 45 degrese. As opposed to waiting for it to drop from say 100, to 45, and not knowing for sure it was the correct temp throughtout. As said above, the manufacurer would have done tests.

Auto's failing is just back luck I think. You can make it worse for yerself if you thrash it. Just hope mine doesn't need another replacement. One's enough.

I agree bad luck is involved as I knew mgr people with many miles and no issues. Mine was defiantly fluid related as initially I had a problem between 1 and 2 and it was mostly cured after a few fluid changes. Ultimately the issue the OP faced was down a common issue I just wonder if LR and MRG could have chosen a better box? That said I still loved my 75 auto

I think the fluid level/ quality can cause the solenoids in the Box to wear out more quickly causing change issues but for the brave there are a few places selling the solenoids if you fancy removing the valve block your self. Again won't help with the issues the OP faced.

When I changed the fluid I first made sure the level was correct at the required temp (35-40 degrees iirc using a medical thermo or meet temp probe work well) then once the car had stood I would drain what ever would come out and put the exact amount back in. Take car for a drive and leave over and night again then repeat to ensure that there was a fair amount of new fluid in there. Finally recheck level at required temp as describes in the literature which I found to be just about bang on then feel better knowing you have on paid a steeler and the car returned better mpg and was smoother.

Please everyone remember the level checking plug is on the bottom of the box and must not be confused with the brake band release bolt slightly further back!

Anyway did OP get his car back yet? Hope it's all cool for ya!

Edit: looks like I'm teaching you all to suck eggs as having read a few more posts on here you guys seem to have the know how
Cheers

Thats ok. It all helps.

Do you know if this works on all 8nn series rovers? And the Freelander too? [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXOZGuw9dvc"]YouTube - Rover 800 Jatco Gearbox Self Diagnosis Test. 825 KV6 Auto[/nomedia]

Well picked it up this morning, done around 50 miles since and problem seems to be fixed!! Box seem generally smoother too and more power - guess that's the oil change if they've had it in bits.

It was the piston that failed - over-machined the guy said but Jacto would never admit it. They get parts direct from Jacto in Japan, once I get invoice will post costs of parts for anyone that thinks they can do this themselves.

£680 + VAT all in.

Automatic Gearboxes, Reconditioned Transmission and Repairs in Manchester and Derbyshire, UK - The Automatic Gearbox Company

Don't work for em just well impressed they fixed it, saved me over a grand and a really nice bunch - hope it don't pack in now!

Hope this helps someone save a few quid.

Window motor now to sort.....

hi, i`ve recentlly had this done to mine (2001 td4 ) . all done insitu they replaced the drum and plates and oil for 587.50 inc vat . so far so good ! i spoke to a lot of people before i had it done and the main worry seemed to be that you cannot access the filter without removing the box, so it is a gamble. don`t know where you are but mine was done by hardy engineering in leatherhead.
good luck .

pudster said:

hi, i`ve recentlly had this done to mine (2001 td4 ) . all done insitu they replaced the drum and plates and oil for 587.50 inc vat . so far so good ! i spoke to a lot of people before i had it done and the main worry seemed to be that you cannot access the filter without removing the box, so it is a gamble. don`t know where you are but mine was done by hardy engineering in leatherhead.
good luck .

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Good to hear others have had this done, i'm up north. I had no idea this could be done until I contacted this lot - sounds like you got an even better deal. Could have searched a bit more but I was pretty desperate to get it back as almost un-driveable as it's pretty hilly around here.

So nice to be able to kick down the box again without a queue of traffic behind!

I'll stick up Penn Autos as one to try for people based in W Mids to go with the two mentioned up to now. They've done 3 for me, including a JATCO box and never had any problems with any of them afterwards. The bloke who owns the place has a bit of a special lover dragster too, was at one time claimed to be the most powerful road car in the UK or something like that.