Autobox Question

Hi,

Piglet won't change down, and changing up seems to be delayed. Apart from
the obvious fluid check, is there anything it might be? I can't check the
level as I;ve waited for it to go cold...and now it's dark!?!

EP90 leak in t/fer is quite bad, could this have an impact? Kickdown cable
is not snagged anywhere obvious. Braking is getting interesting as the box
isn;t changing down until I've almost stopped.

Fluid leak on rear of sump of autobox also - so I suspect losing ATF.

Only *annoying* thing is he now goes like a rocket....however it;s not good
for my fuel economy I guess ;-) 40mph in 1st <eeek!>

--
Neil

On or around Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:16:44 +0000 (UTC), "The Neffalump"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Hi,
>
>Piglet won't change down, and changing up seems to be delayed. Apart from
>the obvious fluid check, is there anything it might be? I can't check the
>level as I;ve waited for it to go cold...and now it's dark!?!
>
>EP90 leak in t/fer is quite bad, could this have an impact? Kickdown cable
>is not snagged anywhere obvious. Braking is getting interesting as the box
>isn;t changing down until I've almost stopped.
>
>Fluid leak on rear of sump of autobox also - so I suspect losing ATF.
>
>Only *annoying* thing is he now goes like a rocket....however it;s not good
>for my fuel economy I guess ;-) 40mph in 1st <eeek!>

sounds like a fluid problem. don't overfill it more than a tad, though.

Austin Shackles wrote:

>>Piglet won't change down, and changing up seems to be delayed. Apart from
>>the obvious fluid check, is there anything it might be? I can't check the
>>level as I;ve waited for it to go cold...and now it's dark!?!
>>
>>EP90 leak in t/fer is quite bad, could this have an impact? Kickdown cable
>>is not snagged anywhere obvious. Braking is getting interesting as the box
>>isn;t changing down until I've almost stopped.
>>
>>Fluid leak on rear of sump of autobox also - so I suspect losing ATF.
>>
>>Only *annoying* thing is he now goes like a rocket....however it;s not good
>>for my fuel economy I guess ;-) 40mph in 1st <eeek!>
>
>
> sounds like a fluid problem. don't overfill it more than a tad, though.

If Piglet has an electronically controlled trans it might be a defective
speed sensor.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

Hello, Austin!

I went and bought some ATF, check the level - all fine

*BUT* - the ATF in there is not quite as red as it should be and it smells
funny. I suspect it's cooked (6000rpm in 1st low on the offroad course
anyone?). Wil it do any harm for a few days until I can find someone to
drain and refill it for me?

--
Neil

Neil Brownlee wrote:

> *BUT* - the ATF in there is not quite as red as it should be and it smells
> funny. I suspect it's cooked (6000rpm in 1st low on the offroad course
> anyone?). Wil it do any harm for a few days until I can find someone to
> drain and refill it for me?

Fix it *now* and don't drive it - cooked ATF kills friction linings
really quickly.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

AA called out. AA man annoyed as he cannot fix or tow. They've called out a
full lift truck now.

Oh well.

--
Neil

In <[email protected]> Neil Brownlee wrote:
> Hello, Austin!
>
> I went and bought some ATF, check the level - all fine
>
> *BUT* - the ATF in there is not quite as red as it should be and it
> smells funny. I suspect it's cooked (6000rpm in 1st low on the offroad
> course anyone?). Wil it do any harm for a few days until I can find
> someone to drain and refill it for me?

If the fluid is brown in colour then this brown colour is normally
caused by small bits of friction lining material suspended in the oil.
This has a number of effects -

All moving surfaces are now being "lubricated" by an oil and friction
material mix.
All the hydraulic valves that do important things such as selecting
which gear you should be in will develop a reluctance to move causing
odd gear shift patterns.
The governor and it's O rings on the back of the box don't move as they
should and sometimes the O rings disintegrate. (watch for it sticking in
first gear when cold).

Draining and refilling will offer a temporary fix but if the friction
linings have started to disintegrate it's probably just a matter of time...
watch for any reluctance to start moving forward or a lack of engine
braking (you think an auto has a lack of engine braking until the C
clutch packs in, then you REALLY know what no engine braking means !).

It is possible, though unlikely, that the EP90 from the xfer case has
migrated into the gearbox of course. This may also explain the smell and
colour. But to do that it'd have to get past two oil seals.

I can't help but ask... why the bloody hell were you doing 6000 RPM in
1st low in an automatic on an off road course ? The only time you should
select 1st manually is for engine braking when you're going down hill.
If you need to hit 6000 RPM going down hill the last thing you need is
engine braking ! What you need is a parachute.

cheers

Dave W.
http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

Dave,

Thanks.....oh and the 1st low at that rpm was caused by me not being to
chage the gear....as I was er....not wearing suitable clothing for changing
gear ;-)

I will have a go at my co-driver.

My t/fer box IS leaking heavily however.....

--
Neil

In <[email protected]> The Neffalump wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Thanks.....oh and the 1st low at that rpm was caused by me not being
> to chage the gear....as I was er....not wearing suitable clothing for
> changing gear ;-)
>
> I will have a go at my co-driver.

Yep, make sure he or she understands that their duties include
navigation, running around hill sides with winch ropes and ground
anchors (should they have managed to get you stuck), supplying the
driver with cold drinks/hot drinks, mars bars and bacon sandwiches and,
most important of all, taking the blame when it all goes horribly wrong

> My t/fer box IS leaking heavily however.....

Could be that the seal got damaged when the xfer box was fitted to the
back of the gearbox. It can be a pig of a job to do when you're
underneath the motor - it's really easy to catch the oil seal with the
end of the output shaft as you move the xfer box into place.

EP90 would certainly be an explanation for the colour and the smell,
plus the heavier oil would play havoc with the pressures in the
hydraulic logic which would give some interesting effects in the gear
shift patterns.

You going to Belgium this year ?

cheers

Dave W.
http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

"The Neffalump" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Dave,
>
> Thanks.....oh and the 1st low at that rpm was caused by me not being to
> chage the gear....as I was er....not wearing suitable clothing for changing
> gear ;-)
>
> I will have a go at my co-driver.
>
> My t/fer box IS leaking heavily however.....
>
> --
> Neil
>
>

you'd have thought they would have taken gear changes
into account when they designed them 400 years ago
I mean how did they change gear on the horse

Andy
--
SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big, it's mean it's really, really green

ATF drained.

Black.

Stinks of EP90.

Dave wins a badge.

--

Neil

On or around Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:09:07 +0000 (UTC), "Neil Brownlee"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>AA called out. AA man annoyed as he cannot fix or tow. They've called out a
>full lift truck now.
>
>Oh well.

you *can* tow it. main box in park and transfer box in neutral. assuming
you have a transfer box with a neutral.

the objection to towing autos is that the propshaft will turn the back end
of the box, which since it's not running will not be properly lubed. Same
applies to pump-lubed manuals such as the LT77 and R380.

however, by putting the T-box in neutral, your props don't transmit
movement to the main box, and putting it in park just gaurantees that it
can't turn.

the T-box is splash lubed anyway, so won't come to any harm particularly in
neutral and not transmitting power.

Or so I understand it. doesn't work on other autobox vehicles with no
transfer box, of course.

"The Neffalump" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ATF drained.
>
> Black.
>
> Stinks of EP90.
>
> Dave wins a badge.
>

And for those new to Landrover who don't know what EP90 smells like.... Cats
Pee.

In this case no doubt mixed with burnt auto fluid... hot stinky smelly cats
pee....OHHHH... sell it ;-)

Lee D

Dave,

Yeah - so it's me with the wrecked nerves hoping my autobox will be sorted.
If not - we go in Kanga.....

--
Neil