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Anti stall not working

Discussion in 'TD5' started by td5284, Jul 17, 2015.

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  1. td5284

    td5284 Member

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    Hi guys. I have a disco with a bit of a problem. When im offroad in low box, in a low gear such as gear 2, when i hit an incline it will cut out as if it doesnt have the guts, i have been with other 200tdis that will tick over these obstacles with no revs, if i dont apply revs i will cut out. Its the same if i set off on an incline using only the clutch. I thought the td5 had antistall. Any ideas lads?
     
  2. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    Hi again, there's no such thing as "anti-stall" on a Td5, i gave you an idea in the other thread about what might be an issue and worth a check, you can't compare this with a 200tdi cos it's a complicated management.... it works on different fuel maps for hi and low and the hi-low switch input makes the ECM to swap between them... as i said that switch is poor design and can have intermittent behaviour and work on plain ground or downhill and open uphill, also if it's closed when you select HDC it will not cancel the HDC while the engine is running even if the switch jumps out ... or if it's manual the selected gear is important in low
    [QUOTE="TRANSFER BOX - LT230SE - DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION 41-15]High/low detect switch
    A high/low detect switch is fitted in the front output housing and connects to earth when low is selected. The switch is
    connected to the engine ECM, the SLABS ECU and the EAT ECU. The purpose of the switch is to enable selection
    of the hill descent feature and to modify the engine fuelling and automatic gearbox gearshift maps stored within the
    respective ECM's and ECU's[/QUOTE]

    ...though if you want to ignore this your choice

    another thing if this is not the issue can be the brake switch too... it has a normally closed contact which can be open and then the fueling is reduced, you need a tester to see if this switch is normally closed or not but you can adjust it to rule out a missalignment...fully depress the brake pedal and pull the switch's plunger with your hand untill it reaches the pedal

    i told you about management issues presuming that you ruled out other things like filters, EGR(if still there) etc which could affect fueling

    is it running well in hi and has enough power? ...cos if it doesnt you can't expect too much in low range
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  3. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member

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    Well as far as I know all Td5s do have anti stall.

    Td5s dont have HDC unless they have TC fitted...
     
  4. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    It's about a D2 Td5 here and if you know about such "anti-stall" enhancement please let me know how does it work and what's involved and i'll stand corrected

    the other statement with the HDC and TC is completely wrong as TC is not something which can be fitted, it's an automatic inbuilt function of the ABS system not optional and so is the HDC just that the HDC works on driver's request not by default like the TC
     
    DIFFLOCK66 likes this.
  5. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member

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    On my phone at the min so this is the best i can find

    defendertd5.weebly.com/td5-a-short-history.html

    Yes TC is part of ABS and is an optional extra at factory.

    HDC is not automatic but a button to pressed

    If you link me through to a source ill accept too :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  6. Shifty1962

    Shifty1962 Well-Known Member

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    I am willing to be corrected but....

    I've never heard of "anti stall" on any TD5 powered Landrovers.
    I was not aware driver commanded HDC was enabled on any TD5 powered Landrovers let alone auto HDC. Mine certainly does not have it.
    My TD5 90 CSW does have traction control which is a secondary function of the ABS system and in my experience is not very effective on any thing other than wet tarmac.

    It is why I will be fitting lockers this year. Nothing more embarrassing than being stuck in a muddy field, towing a three ton trailer with one front and one rear wheel trying to get traction while the TC simply can not get drive to where its needed.

    My wife drove our Subaru Outback fitted with normal road tyres onto the same field and towed out my Defender complete with trailer with no fuss what so ever. If Landrovers had the same full time symetrical 4WD system as the Scooby they would be the perfect off roader.

    Have a look at this video as it demonstrates the issues with most 4WD vehicles.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw
     
  7. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys, i'm quoting a part of the OP's first statement:
    all i've said is was about the D2 not Defender cos that's what's about in this thread... i kniow nothing about how the Defender's ABS setup but the on the D2 is exaxctly as i said believe me
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  8. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member

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    Both the Fender and Disco are almost identical. Only addition the Disco has is ACE i believe but willing to be corrected on that..

    I do vaguely remember something about late D2s having no diff lock just TC but thats it..

    I have a TD5 Fender but never noticed antistall as I well just drive... However I have often heard of it being on TD5s

    Deffinately no auto HDC only thing that has that afaik is the new RR and D4. My 90 deffinately hasnt got that.
     
  9. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    :( Maybe my statement was not put well, my bad ...i've never meant that HDC is automatic, when i said "so is the HDC" i was referring to the inbuilt and optional things

    as i said i dunno much about Defender but for D2 i reformulate:

    TC is not optional, it's inbuilt and completely automatic (so is the EBD 100%)

    HDC is not optional either, also inbuilt but works only on driver's command(by selecting low and pushing the button)

    i hope it's better now

    ...as about that "anti-stall" i'm convinced that there's no such thing in the D2's management, also the D2 has a special type SLABS ECU which is double purpose , for ABS and SLS(so not only ACE is the difference) and the Defender the simple WABCO D type ABS ECU
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  10. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling your right on the non option TC and driver operated HDC on a D2 but I think eary D2s still had a manual difflock.

    Anti stall jurys out, loads of vids on youtube of it apparently in action...

    I do know that Disco and Fender ECUs are interchangle with minor reprogaming.
     
  11. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    The diff lock on D2s was an option for extra money on all modells : http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f8/does-every-disco-2-have-diff-lock-285882.html , the ABS management on a D2 is conceived as to inhibit the TC when the diff is locked based on the diff-lock switch's input to the SLABS ECU on early modells and upgraded to work together on facelifts.

    the engine ECU's are interchangeable not the ABS ECUs, the Defender's WABCO D ECU has different connectors and layout than the D2's SLABS ECU and they are not interchangeable, compare only the pics

    1 OEM Wabco Land Rover Defender MID 2002 ABS ECU Assembly SRD000110 | eBay

    2 Land Rover Discovery 2 Wabco Slabs ECU SLS AND ABS Computer | eBay

    though we are way off topic here :eek:
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  12. td5284

    td5284 Member

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    I appreciate your time and opinion on the matter but i am just asking for other opinions as i like to thoroughly research before i start messing with the motor, i wasnt my intention to upset you, my apologies. But i do believe the td5 has an antistall which only works if the throttle isnt used, the ecu tells the engine to apply revs if it feels like the load is too great for the engine at tick over.
     
  13. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    no worries i'm not so sensitive;)... i just want to help, i think i know the D2 management quite well and never hear about this anti stall thing ... at least no official description about that in engine management section of the workshop manual...and i know that by heart, afaik for released throttle situation it has only an anti-surge(surge damping) function which is based on the clutch switch input to enable smooth gear change but knowing how the Td5's addaptive strategy works i can't see how that anti stall thing would occur:confused:

    are you sure you dont have some fuelling issue? ...though i doubt that you'll ever be able to climb a slope in low without using the throttle, IMO the D2 was not convceived to do that, maybe there's no problem just that you expect something the D2 is unable to do
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  14. td5284

    td5284 Member

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    You might be right. Im comparing it to 300s and 200s but ive been told as a td5 is 5 cylinder wereas a 300 is only 4 they have a longer stroke so tend to cope better at lower rpm than the td5. I suppose i will have to use my right foot more. Im going to check my fuel pump filter for gunk also. What should my fuel pressure be?
     
  15. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    4 bar in the FPR instead of the sensor...try to drive it with MAF unplugged too... better make sure the engine runs at it's full power and "negotiate" the slopes with the throttle...there are techniques described in the owners handbook and no mention about doing anything without throttle, only to use the proper gear and ease up the throttle in some cases
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  16. td5284

    td5284 Member

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    Ok cheers. My mates have 200tdi engines, i suppose its a different driving style to me and them.
     
  17. johnlad

    johnlad Well-Known Member

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    I know its a td5 defender but I often use low range 1st over rough terrian without any throttle, it just creeps over on tick over, and thats with 37" tyres.
    Have never taken the D2 off road so dont know if its the same, but I would say to the op to try it in low 1st if he doesent want to use any throttle, much harder to stall
     
  18. td5284

    td5284 Member

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    I have 265 75 16s so i may need to change gearing for better crawling. What ratio would you change the diffs to?
     
  19. johnlad

    johnlad Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt change diffs, if you have fitted bigger tyres you will have to expect it to struggle more at low speeds, try crawling in low first, dont touch the clutch or go pedal, see how it is then,
     
  20. ratty

    ratty I'm not special I'm limited edition Global Moderator

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    Td5's do have anti stall but compared to the new tdci's it's crap.
     
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