Disco 2 Ace Pipes

Bobdog · Oct 29, 2018

Today I discovered that my rear fecking ace pipe has split and I'm leaving a nice little trail of fluid wherever I go. With the help of my mate who is a plumber, we have a plan to fix it with 10mm copper pipe and compression fittings. However, there is a chance it won't work.
My real question is, since my disco is on coils on the rear, can I just blank off the two pipes coming out of the valve block, meaning ace is only operational on the front?

Jamiegreen · Oct 29, 2018

I honestly couldn't tell you exactly, but I do think that would throw up a code and put it into locked bars mode probably. If you are already on coils and don't want to fix it, you might as well just get a standard arb conversion kit and remove the ACE. Just remember do NOT let the fluid drain as the pump will seize and probably snap the belt. But it can also be fixed with compression fittings and hydraulic hose, any hydraulics shop should make it up for you. If using copper keep in mind the system can reach around 2000PSI.

MJI · Oct 29, 2018

I have seen peaks of around 140 BAR

My D2 is remembered at the local specialist as the ACE repaired one

Bobdog · Oct 29, 2018

Jamiegreen said:
I honestly couldn't tell you exactly, but I do think that would throw up a code and put it into locked bars mode probably. If you are already on coils and don't want to fix it, you might as well just get a standard arb conversion kit and remove the ACE. Just remember do NOT let the fluid drain as the pump will seize and probably snap the belt. But it can also be fixed with compression fittings and hydraulic hose, any hydraulics shop should make it up for you. If using copper keep in mind the system can reach around 2000PSI.

Well I would like to fix it eventually when i can afford it! My mate has all the gear for 10mm pipe and I've seen successful fixes using copper and compression fittings. I did ask a hydraulics firm if they could make up a short repair section including the rubber hose, they said £60-70! I've seen the whole new pipe for just a bit more. Anyway, whilst conversion is an option, I need a quick cheap fix as I'm using it for work and waiting for customers to pay up. If the car's not working, neither am I...

Bobdog · Oct 29, 2018

Also bear in mind that braking systems go up to 2000psi and they are often made of copper.

brian47 · Oct 29, 2018

As both the other guys have said, the ACE system can produce pressures of 2000 psi. At those sorts of pressures a copper pipe might hold if the wall is thick enough, but I can't see a standard plumbing type compression fitting being able to hold.
It's because of the high pressures involved that brake lines use flared ends to create a joint.

BTW the fact that your Disco is on coil springs is of no consequence to the ACE, the suspension system and ACE are two separate systems.

Bobdog · Oct 29, 2018

brian47 said:
As both the other guys have said, the ACE system can produce pressures of 2000 psi. At those sorts of pressures I can't see a standard plumbing type compression fitting being able to hold.
It's because of the high pressures involved that brake lines use flared ends to create a joint.

BTW the fact that your Disco is on coil springs is of no consequence to the ACE, the suspension system and ACE are two separate systems.

I realise that, the reason I mentioned it is because having researched it a little, people have mentioned/observed that ACE makes little difference to the suspension on the rear if it's on springs. When cornering, ACE would have most effect on the front anyway. The hydraulics firm I spoke to said compression fittings would be fine. The question I'm trying to find the answer to, is can I at least temporarily blank off the rear pipes without ill effect?

sierrafery · Oct 29, 2018

Remove the ACE relay untill you fix it cos this should keep the valves closed and recirculate the fluid between the pump and the block and isolate the actuators so you'll loose only the fluid from that ram... provided the valves are closing well, though what ever you do dont let the tank go empty and drive it so cos the pump will seize and rip the belt

Bobdog · Oct 29, 2018

sierrafery said:
Remove the ACE relay untill you fix it cos this should keep the valves closed and recirculate the fluid between the pump and the block and isolate the actuators so you'll loose only the fluid from that ram... provided the valves are closing well, though what ever you do dont let the tank go empty and drive it so cos the pump will seize and rip the belt

So if I do that, it should remove the pressure from the system? I am keeping it topped up for now (though obviously still leaking) what are your thoughts on blanking the rear part of the system off? Would the pipes need to be linked or blanked individually at the block? Would this cause any issues or basically just have a 'front-end' ACE system?

jamesmartin · Oct 29, 2018

Bobdog said:
Also bear in mind that braking systems go up to 2000psi and they are often made of copper.

? copper pipe might take that pressure but your system never does

jamesmartin · Oct 29, 2018

Bobdog said:
I realise that, the reason I mentioned it is because having researched it a little, people have mentioned/observed that ACE makes little difference to the suspension on the rear if it's on springs. When cornering, ACE would have most effect on the front anyway. The hydraulics firm I spoke to said compression fittings would be fine. The question I'm trying to find the answer to, is can I at least temporarily blank off the rear pipes without ill effect?

ace works the same on springs as air and rear is as necessary as the front, ive seen pipes repaired with compression fittings, and you cant easily block off the back physically,you could unplug the rear solenoid but it would put warning lights on

Bobdog · Oct 29, 2018

jamesmartin said:
ace works the same on springs as air and rear is as necessary as the front, ive seen pipes repaired with compression fittings, and you cant easily block off the back physically,you could unplug the rear solenoid but it would put warning lights on

I was only thinking about a temporary fix to stop losing fluid by cutting the rear pipes near the block and using 10mm blanking compression fittings. Eventually I would get new pipes to get it working again but for now, if I can get the fittings to hold, would it work?

jamesmartin · Oct 29, 2018

Bobdog said:
I was only thinking about a temporary fix to stop losing fluid by cutting the rear pipes near the block and using 10mm blanking compression fittings. Eventually I would get new pipes to get it working again but for now, if I can get the fittings to hold, would it work?

youd be better trying to repair the pipe than attempt block it

sierrafery · Oct 29, 2018

Bobdog said:
So if I do that, it should remove the pressure from the system? I am keeping it topped up for now (though obviously still leaking) what are your thoughts on blanking the rear part of the system off? Would the pipes need to be linked or blanked individually at the block? Would this cause any issues or basically just have a 'front-end' ACE system?

As i said if you remove the relay the rams are isolated cos the DCVs are closed and you should not loose more fluid even if you dont blank it and the front will be in locked bar like with conventional system... the warning will be on this way but it will go out when the stem is fixed so will be if you blank the pipes which as @jamesmartin said better fix them

Bobdog · Oct 29, 2018

jamesmartin said:
youd be better trying to repair the pipe than attempt block it

sierrafery said:
As i said if you remove the relay the rams are isolated cos the DCVs are closed and you should not loose more fluid even if you dont blank it and the front will be in locked bar like with conventional system... the warning will be on this way but it will go out when the stem is fixed so will be if you blank the pipes which as @jamesmartin said better fix them

Right... so... I can attempt my original plan to repair the pipe, if that fails, I can remove the ACE relay to basically shut down the system to stop it leaking.
I lose ACE until it's fixed , but hey, it'll just be like driving a P38 for a while....

Bobdog · Oct 30, 2018

sierrafery said:
Remove the ACE relay untill you fix it cos this should keep the valves closed and recirculate the fluid between the pump and the block and isolate the actuators so you'll loose only the fluid from that ram... provided the valves are closing well, though what ever you do dont let the tank go empty and drive it so cos the pump will seize and rip the belt

Removed the ACE relay today, topped up tank, drove it, no lights on the dash and fluid still pi$$ing out...

Spot1 · Oct 30, 2018

I had this a few weeks ago. I used a jubilee clip and rubber patch as a temporary bandage until I could replace the leaking pipe. It didn’t stop the leak but it majorly slowed it.

Yes the pipes are not cheap but stop messing around and buy the right one and do it right first time.
I brought just the pipe I needed from island 4x4 and it arrived very quickly and well packaged.
I would suggest replacing both pipes. You’ll end up basically taking both off so you may as well replace both at the same time and have done with it. I would if I did it again.

Also, I’d suggest buying a pair of ARB drop links. You’ll have to release the ARB links anyway and mine were a bar steward to undo and I knackered the threads undoing them. They’re only about £20 each.

It took me a day to get everything undone (the two chassis clamp bolts had to be dremelled off as they were beyond rusted) and the ARB links off and the old pipe removed. It took me under an hour to rebuild it all....

There are two special copper/rubber washers that should be replaced when undoing the ACE ram banjo fittings. I wasn’t aware of them so used the old ones again and all is fine but I’d suggest replacing them and the cap nuts were badly rusted too.

I wouldn’t even consider removing ACE despite being advised to by my local Indy specialist. It seems that people are scared of it for some reason but Land Rover wouldn’t have installed it if it wasn’t a big improvement. I’m on springs at present but plan to return it to air in the near future too.

Bobdog · Oct 30, 2018

Spot1 said:
I had this a few weeks ago. I used a jubilee clip and rubber patch as a temporary bandage until I could replace the leaking pipe. It didn’t stop the leak but it majorly slowed it.

Yes the pipes are not cheap but stop messing around and buy the right one and do it right first time.
I brought just the pipe I needed from island 4x4 and it arrived very quickly and well packaged.
I would suggest replacing both pipes. You’ll end up basically taking both off so you may as well replace both at the same time and have done with it. I would if I did it again.

Also, I’d suggest buying a pair of ARB drop links. You’ll have to release the ARB links anyway and mine were a bar steward to undo and I knackered the threads undoing them. They’re only about £20 each.

It took me a day to get everything undone (the two chassis clamp bolts had to be dremelled off as they were beyond rusted) and the ARB links off and the old pipe removed. It took me under an hour to rebuild it all....

There are two special copper/rubber washers that should be replaced when undoing the ACE ram banjo fittings. I wasn’t aware of them so used the old ones again and all is fine but I’d suggest replacing them and the cap nuts were badly rusted too.

I wouldn’t even consider removing ACE despite being advised to by my local Indy specialist. It seems that people are scared of it for some reason but Land Rover wouldn’t have installed it if it wasn’t a big improvement. I’m on springs at present but plan to return it to air in the near future too.

I appreciate what you are saying and I do intend to fix it properly, however, I'm having serious cash flow problems right now. I can't afford new pipes yet so my mate has kindly supplied/bought some parts to do a temporary repair (it may even be good enough as a permanent repair) I need it on the road to keep working and keep money coming in, hence my need for a cheap temporary fix.

sierrafery · Oct 31, 2018

Bobdog said:
Removed the ACE relay today, topped up tank, drove it, no lights on the dash and fluid still pi$$ing out...

then your system is fuc*ed up competeley... or maybe the ACE ECU is the culprit cos it's against all odds to remove the relay and get no warning light... depends on you m8, but i have the feeling that as many others you'll get rid of it... though if you want to fix it we'll speak again... your first step should be to get a replacement ACE ECU(which thanked to the de-ACE hysteria should be very cheap) and it's plug and play.
I hope you can see the ACE warning light on ignition self test though.... cos if you don't i'll be very angry albeit i'll never let you down if you want to fix it but i can tell you with a 100% certitude that with removed relay you MUST see the amber warning IF the system is not "mad" ..GOOD LUCK

AdamD1 · Oct 31, 2018

Spot1 said:
I wouldn’t even consider removing ACE despite being advised to by my local Indy specialist. It seems that people are scared of it for some reason but Land Rover wouldn’t have installed it if it wasn’t a big improvement. I’m on springs at present but plan to return it to air in the near future too.

Nice! I really think SLS is one of the nicer features the car came with, I do get why people take the easy option but personally I think it’s a great feature. ACE disengaging off road was impressive too, it’s so much more stable than my D1 was and on a couple of bits where lifted cars scrabbled the extra articulation I had seemed to make the difference, barely knew the car was doing anything.

Is it easy to see that the pipes are corroded/about to fail?

Disco 2 Ace Pipes

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