'99 P38 2.5DSE cold starting problems

Hi,

I'm new to the world of 4x4 and also diesels. I've just bought a 1999 P38 2.5DSE which has an odd fault that I hope someone may be able to shed some light on. The car runs great and drives very well for such a big beast.

Unfortunately when I start it in the mornings it's not to keen to fire up. If I turn it over after the lights all go out it doesn't fire up. If I wait about 30 seconds before turning it over it fires up OK. I wait for a pump to stop pumping to get a sure start. On further investigation the pump I've been waiting to stop is the vacuum pump (?) for the brakes, it's connected to the ABS control unit anyway. I think this is a red herring though. I'm wondering if it's a problem with the fuel supply but there's no sign of diesel leaks and I seem to be getting full performance.

Once the engines been turned off it fires up again fine if no more than a few hours have passed. This makes me think there's a problem with the fuel pressure???

If anyone's got any helpful suggestions I'd be very grateful.

Regards,

Andy.

On a morning I give the glow plugs 2 light ups on my 2.5dse. This makes sure it fires immediatley. Turn the ignition on until the glow plug light goes out, turn off and turn on again, once its gone out a 2nd time turn to crank the engine. mine then fires staight up.

Have you tried this?

Stratos,
Couple of things for you:
1. Do you have the same problem from a warm/hot start - if no read on..
2. Does you problem vanish after filling up your tank with fuel - if yes, carry on..
3. Does the problem return after you've used 1/2 a tank or more....???

If you've got this far then you may find the fuel is draining back into the tank from the filter. This happened on mine.
I spoke to my more than helpful local independant and they suggested a 'one way valve' from filter to block. It cost me a straight fiver (£5.00).
We removed the existing clear fuel piping from the filter forward.
Renewed it with some heavy duty diesel fuel pipe with the valve inserted in between, secured with 4 jubilee clips and I've never had a problem since. Starts first time, every time and never misses a beat - cold, warm, hot, full tank, half full or quarter tank...
This maybe a solution to your problems. It worked for me but yours maybe something else.
If your struggling to start it when it's warm/hot, it probably is something else.
Good luck.......

Thanks for the suggestions.

Fitting a one way valve sounds like the best plan. The problem certainly appears to be fuel draining back.

Many thanks,

Andy.

Hi mate. I had the same problem with our dse. It turned out to be the injector leak off pipes letting air into the system overnight. There was no visable signs of fuel leaking out of them. Took about 10 minutes to replace and a couple of quid. Hope this is of help
Luke
(eightinavee told me about the problem)

Last year my 2.5 DSE was a cow to start from cold, but ok when warm, whacked in a new set of glow-plugs & it starts on the first touch now, turned out that only 1 of the 6 was working.

I have noticed my car doing this.. the last owner had it tucked up in his garage everynight so never had a problem with cold start, but today it took a few goes to get it going...
Cold starts take longer to get it firing
warm starts no probs
I filled up recently so will have to wait ( Not long I guess!) to see if it is a problem with it starting with less than half a tank..
So where is that you get hold of this diesel piping and one way valve, and how much do I need? I assume it's fairly straight forward job?

Canyon,
It probably depends where you live...
My one-way valve was bought from a bosch specialist in Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire.
My local independant L/R garage sourced some piping they had lying around in drawers and charged me nowt for the pipes and clips.
However, I have been going to them for the last 8 years and have recommended them to whoever I meet, and of course I bought my R/R from them too....
You could say I'm a loyal customer !?! - hence the no charge.
I you source the pipe, you don't need much, just measure the existing and get the same length and then, if you struggle to find the valve, I'm sure we can sought something out..
Let me know how you get on...
james

modelman said:

Last year my 2.5 DSE was a cow to start from cold, but ok when warm, whacked in a new set of glow-plugs & it starts on the first touch now, turned out that only 1 of the 6 was working.

Click to expand...

Is this straight forward to do? What tools do I need? Do I just get the glowplugs from BMW or LR or halfrauds?

I know this sounds silly but does this need to be done in order- imeans the leak off pipe, the fuel filter oneway valve, and the glowplugs? What do you guys recommend?

Thanks for your replies

Hi Andy I would start with the lkeak of pipe, You should be able to get it from any motor factors for a couple of quid. If that dosnt cure the problem I would then go for the heater plugs as all the one way valve is doing is stoping the leakoff pipe problem. I first replaced the heater plugs on mine, with no change then done the lek off pipes. I got my heater plugs from either Paddock Spares - Land Rover, Range Rover Parts & Accessories - Discovery, Defender and Freelander or MM 4x4 - Parts & Accessories for Land Rover Range Rover Discovery Defender. Cant remember which for about £25 for all 6
Cheers Luke

Hi everyone,

Hope someone can help me out here.

My Range Rover p38 2.5 DSE has gradually started to take longer to start and yesterday failed to start at all. No matter how long I crank it it won't catch so I thought t could be the glow plugs. However, upon looking at the leak-off pipes(?) (the short rubber pipes inbetween each injector) I have noticed that they are split quite badly and diesel is leaking from the first and second. First of all, how would I go about changing these - what would be the cost and how long would it take a novice? Secondly, I have purchased a new set of glow plugs and need some easy to understand instructions if possible which I can't seem to find anywhere.

Any help would be greatfully appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

whats the part number for the non return valve from a bosch dealer? was it 6 or 8 mm?

Update... finished the job off- new leak off pipes which very very hard and a pig to pull off- i had to use a scalple to slice the end. replaceed the glow plugs without having to remove the high pressure injector piping- took ages but managed it. Also managed to fit new pollen filters- the old ones were- lets just say -black.
I did notice that the inlet manifold had a bit of black oilly paste inside - is this normal? i cleaned as much as i could, and put it all back.
total time to do all this work 3 hrs.

Thanks guys for the information here, reading the description of this starting issue sounded very similar to what I have experienced on my car but to a lesser extent. I have just fitted the timer relay box to take care of the hot starting issue but thought I would check my injector return pipes to find they were all hard and cracking. I have replaced them all and it made a massive difference to the starting of the car.

Canyon said:

Update... finished the job off- new leak off pipes which very very hard and a pig to pull off- i had to use a scalple to slice the end. replaceed the glow plugs without having to remove the high pressure injector piping- took ages but managed it. Also managed to fit new pollen filters- the old ones were- lets just say -black.
I did notice that the inlet manifold had a bit of black oilly paste inside - is this normal? i cleaned as much as i could, and put it all back.
total time to do all this work 3 hrs.

Click to expand...

I have less than quarter tank of fuel and it didn't fire first time- but after 3 goes it did- could the fuel be draining back? I was left standing for 2 days.

Canyon said:

whats the part number for the non return valve from a bosch dealer? was it 6 or 8 mm?

Click to expand...

anyone know?

Canyon,
Suspect it is the fuel draining back into your tank...
I would stick by my previous recommendation and go with the one-way valve, this should cure your problem.
You've asked the question..'whats the part number for the non return valve from a bosch dealer? was it 6 or 8 mm?
The answer is, I've absolutely no idea...!?!?
My local independent recommended I just went and asked the guy at the unit, for a one-way valve for a R/R 2.5 BMW diesel engine.
I did, paid my fiver and left with the valve, returned to my local garage and by the time I'd made them tea, it was fitted and 'hey-presto..', problem solved.
So sorry, can't help with any part numbers for ya....
James.

A friend of mine has a similar problem, he has bother starting with less than half a tank of diesel. I'll have a look at the pipes for him and see if they are an issue.
On the non return valve, will this need to be specific for diesel, or will a hydraulic non return valve do the trick? Not sure if the seals would need to be a certain type to avoid being perished by the fuel.

james2.5dse said:

Canyon,
Suspect it is the fuel draining back into your tank...
I would stick by my previous recommendation and go with the one-way valve, this should cure your problem.
You've asked the question..'whats the part number for the non return valve from a bosch dealer? was it 6 or 8 mm?
The answer is, I've absolutely no idea...!?!?
My local independent recommended I just went and asked the guy at the unit, for a one-way valve for a R/R 2.5 BMW diesel engine.
I did, paid my fiver and left with the valve, returned to my local garage and by the time I'd made them tea, it was fitted and 'hey-presto..', problem solved.
So sorry, can't help with any part numbers for ya....
James.

Click to expand...

do you have the number of your local independant? I asked my local and they looking at me as if i am mental. is the unit metal or palstic - can you take a picture an post it on here? where in the fuel line did you fit it?

What a lot of great advice in this thread!

You guys have listed causes and cures that should be written in indelible ink in the brains of every diesel Landy owner!

If the engine doesn't fire up smartly after attending to those three main suggestions, it's time to quit as the laws of physics have just stopped working!

Great replies, enjoyed reading them.

CharlesY