'99 P38 2.5DSE cold starting problems

Hey, and it just occurred to me -

A one way valve (for God's sake fit it the right way round!) costs a fiver, a metre or so of leak-off pipe about the same, and glow plugs cost what glow plugs cost, and don't last forever, and all of this is DIY, no labour charges!!

By the way, does your car have an EGR system fitted? If so, find it and blank it off at the exhaust manifold. That EGR thing kills power and economy, and is probably the main cause of gruesome messes in the inlet manifold.

Ask some of the experts on this engine about EGRs and disabling them.

CharlesY

Found this guy who supplies non return valves
Peter Slater Fuel Injection Engineers

There are Three Sizes for the internal pipe size:
Part No: 133-968 6.00mm
Part No: 133-968A 8.00mm
Part No: 133-968B 10.00mm
Price each £10.00 including VAT & Post
All Items are Ex-stock

Hope this is of help

Guys,
Some photos of my one-way valve for you:
0 006 is the valve itself &
0 007 is the valve connected, forming the fuel line.
On the right of the photo is the fuel filter outlet and far right is where its screwed into the engine block..
Hope this helps those who are interested..
Queries?? give me a shout....
James.

CharlesY said:

Hey, and it just occurred to me -

By the way, does your car have an EGR system fitted? If so, find it and blank it off at the exhaust manifold. That EGR thing kills power and economy, and is probably the main cause of gruesome messes in the inlet manifold.

Ask some of the experts on this engine about EGRs and disabling them.

CharlesY

Click to expand...

I have blanked off the vacuum pipe that operates the EGR valve and it does seem to have improved the low rpm pickup of the motor. I am planning to make an EGR bypass, a copy of the EGR unit but with a straight through pipe and no valve. Having looked at the valve it must be restricting the airflow into the engine quite a bit and so I think it might be worth the time to make one up just to see what effect it has.

I have thought about doing this myself too! When I replaced the glow plugs I did notice a heck of a lot of black paste in the manifold and in the EGR Valve....
When you blanked off the pipe ( I take it is the black one with the blue line along it?) What did you do with the valve itself? how did you block that?
Will you need to reset the on board computer? Will it throw a wobbly when you run the engine?

Canyon said:

I have thought about doing this myself too! When I replaced the glow plugs I did notice a heck of a lot of black paste in the manifold and in the EGR Valve....
When you blanked off the pipe ( I take it is the black one with the blue line along it?) What did you do with the valve itself? how did you block that?
Will you need to reset the on board computer? Will it throw a wobbly when you run the engine?

Click to expand...

All I have done so far is to cut the pipe (the black one with the blue line) and use a short piece of bolt (the treaded bit) to join the pipe back together effectively blanking it. This will only serve to stop the valve operating to see what effect that had. I didn't want to break the EGR valve in case the effect was a bad one so I didn't remove the valve. Also I want to keep the thing in tact just in case it's needed at MOT time should there be any adverse effect on the emmisions! So far there have been no adverse effects and the engine seems a little more eager from tickover as you first hit the throttle. All I have achieved so far is stopping the exhaust gasses (and oily gunge!) entering the intake so the next step is to remove the obstruction caused by the valve itself and to do that I will need to make a new assembly with a straight through pipe to replace the EGR valve. I have heard that it make a big difference when done on other diesels but not come accross anyone who has done it on this motor.Does anybody know what these engines had before the EGR was introduced as it might be easier to swop the parts for those from a non EGR car?Anyway, if time permits I will make the bypass at the weekend and let you know how it goes.

james2.5dse said:

Guys,
Some photos of my one-way valve for you:
0 006 is the valve itself &
0 007 is the valve connected, forming the fuel line.
On the right of the photo is the fuel filter outlet and far right is where its screwed into the engine block..
Hope this helps those who are interested..
Queries?? give me a shout....
James.

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting the pics- I managed to get hold of the same valve 8mm, popped the bonnet and I can see a translucent or "was" clear tube which I assume is the fuel line....anyway the direction of flow of the fuel is to the injector block? Would it be wise the change the fuel filter while I am disconnecting fuel line anyway- how easy is it to do this job?

Canyon,
Glad to read you got the valve.

We didn't bother to mess around with the fuel filter and left it as is.

I always use diesel from the main 'Four', don't trust the water in 'Tescoids' fuel, tends to bugger up an engine and water's a real pain in the arse to ignite.

So going back to your fuel filter, I would say that's a matter of preference.
If you say your fuel line was... 'translucent or "was" clear tube' then are you sure it's the fuel making it that colour or has it just got 'grubby' over the years..??

TOP TIP:
If you haven't done the change yet, you'll find removing the pipe from the filter end quite a struggle. Take care not to snap the plastic pipe insert as you try and get it off the housing. Apparently, and I was warned so i was OK, but they do snap off, if you don't pull them off squarely.

Hope this goes someway to answering your query..??

Hi Statos

I agree to with whats been said Too

intially i would change all the glow-plugs remember 6 to change similar to changing a spark-plug just with a little connecting cable on top if you sourse them from one of the on.ine supplies they should cst you no more than 23-24 quid.

heres a link
STC3103 Heater Plug - 2.5 Diesel

I think they do post free within the UK

if that doesnt help & if you problem is only with initial cold starting - then hopefully that will help

if you getting problems when the motor`s warm / hot them put a one way valve on the fuel supply (but dont source on over E**y as they tend to be a little overpriced

i changed the one way vale on mine, the problem seems to be my fuel pumps, cause even if its started, seems to lack fuel when the tank is close to empty. take a look at it, im going to change the whole thing cause the fuel meter is buggered, ill post if that is the problem.

modelman said:

Last year my 2.5 DSE was a cow to start from cold, but ok when warm, whacked in a new set of glow-plugs & it starts on the first touch now, turned out that only 1 of the 6 was working.

Click to expand...

Hiya modelman

anything to whatch out for inparticular when changing the glow-plugs i notice the injestor structure above need removing

i have done the job on perkins Series II´s motors before - nothing to that but looking at the P38 BMW motor theres a lot more plastic and intake stuff

p38owner said:

Hi mate. I had the same problem with our dse. It turned out to be the injector leak off pipes letting air into the system overnight. There was no visable signs of fuel leaking out of them. Took about 10 minutes to replace and a couple of quid. Hope this is of help
Luke
(eightinavee told me about the problem)

Click to expand...

Sorry, I forgot to post an update. I did "p38owners" suggestion and it worked a treat (cheap too). Thanks everybody for all you help.

Abe said:

Hiya modelman

anything to whatch out for inparticular when changing the glow-plugs i notice the injestor structure above need removing

i have done the job on perkins Series II´s motors before - nothing to that but looking at the P38 BMW motor theres a lot more plastic and intake stuff

Click to expand...

Well, according to others & 'the book' the alloy inlet manifold has to be removed for access to the glow-plugs, but i've been in plant/machinery & diesels for over 40 years & nearly always manage to do things a bit differently.
I removed the top plastic manifold cover & intercooler cross tube so I could see what I was doing, also removed the small vertical brace-piece below the manifold so I could get my hands in & under.
I have a great many tools & by cobbling up various combinations of extensions etc. managed to whip them out & change all 6 in about 1/2 hour, but you must expect the possibility of skinned knuckles etc.
It is DEFINITELY an easier job with the manifold removed first, but I'm too lazy for that.