4x4 Response, waste of space or worthwhile?

Ok, I know this has been done before but with the onset of winter, most of us are you making sure our vehicles are ready and kitted for the worst conditions. Irrespective if you belong to a 4x4 Response group or not.

There seems to be 2 schools of thought on this if you have a 4x4, here's a typical scenario;

1) You come across someone in distress, you don't belong to a 4x4 Response group. What are you going to do? pretty obvious really, you assist if you can.

2) You come across someone in distress, you do belong to 4x4 response group. What are you going to do, exactly the same, you assist if you can.

I signed up to a 4x4 Response group 12 months ago and 6 months later I attended an induction course. I also had to have a CRB check (I already hold a current 'Enhanced CRB' but that didn't count).

The induction course was informative but as the speaker said 'we are essentially a glorified taxi service', presumably that was reason for the CRB check. I've heard nothing from the group since the induction but I daresay they'll be round for another £20 shortly.

I've since decided that there's no way anyone is going to use my 4x4 for a taxi service, I've also found out quite a bit about the bods running this area. Comments like 'up they're own arses', numpties and a few other choice things were mentioned.

This winter I will carry on like any other winter and be out and about to assist when the need arises, but without any involvement of a 4x4 Response 'team'. I've been 'assisting' since the early 70's without any problem and many folk were grateful that I did assist.

I've looked at most of the 4x4 Response websites and most seem pretty professional (and probably are) but others that are just so amateurish which I would take to reflect on those involved in that group.

Anyone else signed up and felt that 4x4 Response was all a waste of time?

Quote"I've heard nothing from the group since the induction but I daresay they'll be round for another £20 "
I'm sorry am I reading that right they were charging you for you to help out? Do you also have to cover all the fuel costs etc? Do they sort public liability insurance etc or does that fall on you as well?

They charge you £20/per year to belong to the group. Allegedly pays for the kit which in my case I don't have. They do pay you a fuel allowance (if you claim) and you come under their insurance 'on call'.

Bunch of wannabes dying to get hold of some blue lights and high vis.

I'll help anyone I can but I usually have enough to deal with helping workmates and friends

in work an email was send out asking if anyone with a 4x4s could help with getting people about during the snow paying standard expense rate as long as you had business insurance

I've already booked the days off if it snows lol

edit... infact here is the email
We have an urgent problem with staff getting to/from work in the ***** area, and are appealing for help.

If you, or any colleagues, are coming into work by 4x4 today or over the weekend, please can you offer lifts to colleagues. ************ can assist to help staff make contact with each other

I do a few rounds of my local area a day when it snows, offer assistance to those that want it, and continue on my way afterwards,

Last year though a few people did come to me in the early hours of the morning thinking their hatchback could get them to work, wasn't the most cheerful chap at 5am, but was happy to help !

Also it helped grease the wheels when they decided to make a "donation" after being pulled or taken to work !

My experience of response isn't good, i know there are some wonderfully run groups, and some bad. I used to be a member of Yorks and Lincs 4x4 response which split, but found them too limiting. My interest is communications via radio, emergency communications etc. Others wanted to offer assistance in missing persons, floods etc, response just said it "wasn't in their remit" so in the end, bored of taxiing people around even after the snow had melted 20 of us in Lincolnshire set up an independent group called Lincolnshire Community assistance team a year ago. Much more down to earth, no badge collectors, everyone is equal and the committee go out and help, not sit in an office lording about, and it feels like we're helping those who need it, rather than helping those who'd rather not use their own brand new 4x4 in the snow. (happened to me in 2011).
We also charge a membership fee, it pays for branded vest, id card, web site and public liability insurance, promotional material etc.

M0YAA said:

.........20 of us in Lincolnshire set up an independent group called Lincolnshire Community assistance team a year ago. Much more down to earth, no badge collectors, everyone is equal and the committee go out and help, not sit in an office lording about, and it feels like we're helping those who need it, rather than helping those who'd rather not use their own brand new 4x4 in the snow. (happened to me in 2011).
We also charge a membership fee, it pays for branded vest, id card, web site and public liability insurance, promotional material etc.

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Now that sounds a very rewarding thing to do, good luck for the future

Nigel-S said:

Now that sounds a very rewarding thing to do, good luck for the future

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Thanks Nigel, we've had a share of badge hunters come and go in the past year, but now we're left with a strong team.
I think as with many things, response started out with good intentions and ideas but some groups lost sight of it when people who saw an opportunity to go to meetings and wear a name badge take over.
We were actually asked by the police in 2011 to check one of the roads over the wolds because there were several missing people and vehicles reported. Response control wanted us to transport nurses to Boston, even though the roads were clear, the only reason we could think was they'd get more money from it. Suffice to say, the half dozen of us out at the police station checked the road and assisted about a dozen cars. But because it wasn't an official response shout, we weren't allowed to claim expenses.

Another organisation i work for, RAYNET provide emergency communications via amateur radio have also been through this. It took about ten years of playing tug of war, now there are 3 different national raynet bodies, the big issue is there is an unwritten rule that members help members and groups regardless of affiliation. The people who do the work need to triumph over those when push pens and think they're something special because they have 5 grand worth of equipment on a land rover they've never used.

I do it for fun not money lol

I don't belong to a group.
if people need me, they ring me.
be it mates, or mates via mates.
failing that, ratty or mhm calls me.

And hopefully lzir will be busy

SteNova said:

I do it for fun not money lol

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Yup, all we asked for was fuel. Some people were greedy. The last shouts i dealt with before we set up the new group involved he transportation of a nurse. I had to drive from Grimsby to Boston, back to Alford then back to Grimsby. Was over 100 miles, annoyed me as roads were clear and nurses Hubby had a brand new freelander parked in the drive. They "didn't want to risk it" the service is supposed to be for emergency use or those who can't help themselves. Not those who won't.
When i was with Wales response i spent 12 hours taking a nurse round private houses and nursing homes. End of life care and terminal patients. It felt very rewarding knowing i had assisted in making someone's final days that little bit more bearable.
Last L-CAT call outs this year was rescuing motorists, i claimed nothing because i felt my time and effort and the gratitude was enough.

It always mystifies me, why people have a downer on Response groups or similar but don't have a downer on mountain rescue or Lowland search and rescue groups. Does it matter that a group consists of 4x4 owners After all Mountain rescue teams tend to be just a group of bobble hats and rock jockies who get a kick out of going out on the hills to look for lost idiots..

Some of the above reasons are why I won't join, I'm not carting people round in slight conditions, but I will go out in the worse conditions with my mates and look for people who need help

Pikey said:

It always mystifies me, why people have a downer on Response groups or similar but don't have a downer on mountain rescue or Lowland search and rescue groups. Does it matter that a group consists of 4x4 owners After all Mountain rescue teams tend to be just a group of bobble hats and rock jockies who get a kick out of going out on the hills to look for lost idiots..

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I think a lot of it is perspective. MRT, SAR, lifeboats, 4x4 groups. People join thinking they're going to helping out in life and death situations. Think is with 4x4 response groups it turns into taxi runs.

M0YAA said:

I think a lot of it is perspective. MRT, SAR, lifeboats, 4x4 groups. People join thinking they're going to helping out in life and death situations. Think is with 4x4 response groups it turns into taxi runs.

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I would say its more of a one up man ship kinda thing. A car purchased is just that. How ever some like to think its a bit more special. Mrt rnli etc are a skill set rather than equipment bought. The idea behind response groups is great but there are always a few that spoil it.

Blimey I'd love to help other people but when we get a puddle down saff here I'm to busy helping friends and family. I remember a long time ago when I had a Pajero and was down staying with "The Olds" in Cornwall. We had some major flooding. I went out to help and actually started helping the police, ferrying people about, towing all manor of cars about. When things settled down the Bizzies came round and everybody had whipped round so we could have a meal at the local boozer. That was thanks enough for me. Just seeing the peoples faces when you pull up in a foot of water and throw em tow rope was enough for me.

Yup, i found that. My frontera was never good enough for them, even after pulling out a stuck tricked up defender.
What was evident was those at the top owned land rovers that were generally less than 5 years old, waffled on about who should be doing what and when, but no one actually saw them physically do anything with them, except spend money on equipment they never used.
Can remember one committee member who'd spent hundreds on a winch course so they could train others but had no clue what a snap back zone was.

To me, when the snow falls and people need help, I'll be out there helping out. I won't be found on a forum picking at taxi work.