300tdi Any Ideas???

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pos

pos

Well-Known Member
Posts
3,685
Location
West Yorkshire
Hello,

My boss's 300tdi disco is refusing to start. The engine turns over (very slowly), so I've had two extra batteries attached to the existing battery to try and give it a bit of extra jumping power but it only made the engine turn over very slightly faster. Is this just an amp problem, or is there anything else I can try? I've just fully charged my boost pack (which wasn't fully charged at the time of trying) so is it possible that was the cause? Also where abouts do I need to connect my croc clips from my jumper battery to try and get the starter turning over straight from that battery??? You know as in the same system that you use when testing an engine on a crane?

Cheers
-Pos
 
if you want to operate the starter directly attach the 0v to chassis and the + to the large terminal on the back of the starter - make sure it's not in gear ! - and be prepared for a bit of a spark and a kick

unless you paid over 300 quid for it your "boost pack" will be little use

also try using one of your jump leads to connect direct from the 0V terminal on the battery (in the disco) to a good earth point as near to the starter as possible as it's usually earth issues that cuase the starter to turn slow

then if your sure there's a good source of current reaching the starter, and it's still turning slowly then start thining about renewing the brushes within it
 
Thanks for the advice Sean. The starter cos £13. It's a Rolson 900 amp and it seems to work alright, but we'll see! Cheers
 
pos said:
Thanks for the advice Sean. The starter cos £13. It's a Rolson 900 amp and it seems to work alright, but we'll see! Cheers
Click to expand...

is it one of these ?

Rolson 12v Jump Start with Air Compressor £24.99

next time your bored and have got 5 spare minutes take the back off it and have a look at the size of the battery in it, and the thickness of the wire connected to it

it'd be supprised if they could supply 90A - good for starting a 850 mini but will struggle to get a big old fashioned landy engine turning

good luck :)
 
Sure is. I had the back off the other day because of a loose connection! The wires that you see going to the crocs are that thick all the way to the battery where they are soldered to big pins. The battery is narrow bit quite wide and relatively heavy. It should do the trick really but I'll just bump start the bugger if not! Saying that its an auto. ****! Its not safe to bump them is it?
 
pos said:
Sure is. I had the back off the other day because of a loose connection! The wires that you see going to the crocs are that thick all the way to the battery where they are soldered to big pins. The battery is narrow bit quite wide and relatively heavy. It should do the trick really but I'll just bump start the bugger if not! Saying that its an auto. ****! Its not safe to bump them is it?
Click to expand...

the battery in it will look something like this - 7Ah !

http://www.ies.aber.ac.uk/files/equipment/Starflow_12vsealed_leadacid_battery.JPG
 
my snapon 1700 jump pack would only just start my 300tdi and my TD5 (with completely flat truck batteries on them) when fully charged.

I don't think your rolson one is gonna be too much cop.
 
Your 300tdi auto will not jump start.
You will have to use the starter motor.

Put the battery on a good charger.

BAD EARTH CONNECTIONS on the battery, chassis and engine block are far and away the major cause of these problems. I suggest you do nothing more till you have taken them all off, cleaned them and what they attach to, copper-greased them and bolted them back nice and tight.

DO NOT USE SANDPAPER to clean battery posts - it leaves grit stuck in the terminals.

Battery -ve post - clean it shining clean and inside the cable end clamp. Leave the batery earth clamp OFF. Smear a little coppergrease inside the clamp.

Follow that -ve battery cable and undo its other end somewhere attached to the chassis. Give it all a good clean.

Battery +ve post same treatment. Follow that cable to the starter (usually) and undo the nut and take off the cables there. There will be several. Wire brush them all clean, lightly coppergrease, and refit them. Find the main earth cable between the chassis and the engine block. This may well be a stout bare braided cable so it can take a lot of vibration and flexing. Make sure it isn't breaking up where the braid joins the end lugs. Take it off, clean both ends and where it fits, coppergrease lightly and refit nice and snug.

That should be that. Fit the battery and -ve terminal and try again.
If that does the job you get promotion, if not the starter needs attention.

Either way it's not your fault anyway.

CharlesY
 
pos said:
Thanks for the advice Sean. The starter cos £13. It's a Rolson 900 amp and it seems to work alright, but we'll see! Cheers
Click to expand...

900amp but for how long?

Lets say it has a 10Ah battery in it (size as pictured in the link)

10Ah = 10 amps for an hour.

OR 20 amps for 30minutes

OR 320 amps for about 40 seconds - however at this stage the battery really is not designed to discharge like this and it will NOT be of much use, so it won't actually be able to do this, but in theory it is possible.

Keep doing the maths and you will get to 900amps, and see how long it can sustain this current.

Take a 45Ah small CAR battery, consider the size of it and one of those won't start a Land Rover.

By the way have you checked the glow plugs? 300tdi in the Disco is like that, very slow starter motor but as long as its had two timed period of glows it will fire first time in even the coldest mornings.
 
discomania said:
900amp but for how long?

Lets say it has a 10Ah battery in it (size as pictured in the link)

10Ah = 10 amps for an hour.

OR 20 amps for 30minutes

OR 320 amps for about 40 seconds - however at this stage the battery really is not designed to discharge like this and it will NOT be of much use, so it won't actually be able to do this, but in theory it is possible.

Keep doing the maths and you will get to 900amps, and see how long it can sustain this current.

Take a 45Ah small CAR battery, consider the size of it and one of those won't start a Land Rover.

By the way have you checked the glow plugs? 300tdi in the Disco is like that, very slow starter motor but as long as its had two timed period of glows it will fire first time in even the coldest mornings.
Click to expand...

I will check the glowplugs later!
 
yes 300 tdis do turn slowly and you will find that even a jump off a large petrol will struggle to start it ie 2.6 skyline couldnt start my old disco however 2.5 ldv convoy will start it on tickover
 
Right, well I finally managed to jump start it off my own battery with the engine running and lots of fuel line bleeding but what a noise! There's a hard metal to metal knock towards the top of the engine. Im guessing it's got a stuck valve or something but I can't be sure. It's a really hard, cold metal to metal clattering sound. Any ideas what this could be? It starts fine and isn't smoking too much. Oh, and the noise is only coming from one cylinder.

Cheers
-Pos
 
pos said:
Right, well I finally managed to jump start it off my own battery with the engine running and lots of fuel line bleeding but what a noise! There's a hard metal to metal knock towards the top of the engine. Im guessing it's got a stuck valve or something but I can't be sure. It's a really hard, cold metal to metal clattering sound. Any ideas what this could be? It starts fine and isn't smoking too much. Oh, and the noise is only coming from one cylinder.

Cheers
-Pos
Click to expand...

First thing say thanks to God .... then check the valve clearances very carefully. You may have been very lucky - a piston may be smacking a valve for some reason, or you may have dropped a valve = disaster.

Rocker cover off I'm afraid, and examine all the rockers, pushrods, and valve collars and collets then set the clearances carefully.

Turn the engine over by hand and you must feel compression every half turn, four times in two revolutions. If you don't you have a major problem in there.

CharlesY
 
Thanks for the great help CharlesY, I'll have to arrange a time with them that I can go over and take the rocker off. That's the easy bit! If it's dropped a valve, what should I be looking for to indicate this and how can it be fixed? Thanks! It's a really thumping knock.
 
pos said:
Thanks for the great help CharlesY, I'll have to arrange a time with them that I can go over and take the rocker off. That's the easy bit! If it's dropped a valve, what should I be looking for to indicate this and how can it be fixed? Thanks! It's a really thumping knock.
Click to expand...

If it has dropped a valve one cylinder will definitely have no compression and usually you won't be able to set any valve clearance, no matter how far up you take the adjuster as the head of the valve isn't stopping the valve stem from rising. It may have knocked the collar and collets off the valve spring too - OMiGod .... !

The piston and cylinder head will probably be wrecked if it has dropped a valve.

But chances are it has NOT dropped a valve, but it may have taken the tip off a glow plug, or ingested some other metal object, a horror beyond imagination.

I think you need to keep calm, and eliminate the possibilities one by one. For example, check the drive belt right round its whole length. A duff belt about to break up can cause terrible noises, and it's a miracle fix too. take off the belt and test all the pulleys and bits the belt runs on.

Belt first, then the rockers, then hoick out the glow plugs (it needs a new set anyway) and make sure they all have full tips, then start to worry what the Hell ?

CharlesY
 
Last edited:
CharlesY said:
Your 300tdi auto will not jump start.
You will have to use the starter motor.

Put the battery on a good charger.

BAD EARTH CONNECTIONS on the battery, chassis and engine block are far and away the major cause of these problems. I suggest you do nothing more till you have taken them all off, cleaned them and what they attach to, copper-greased them and bolted them back nice and tight.

DO NOT USE SANDPAPER to clean battery posts - it leaves grit stuck in the terminals.

Battery -ve post - clean it shining clean and inside the cable end clamp. Leave the batery earth clamp OFF. Smear a little coppergrease inside the clamp.

Follow that -ve battery cable and undo its other end somewhere attached to the chassis. Give it all a good clean.

Battery +ve post same treatment. Follow that cable to the starter (usually) and undo the nut and take off the cables there. There will be several. Wire brush them all clean, lightly coppergrease, and refit them. Find the main earth cable between the chassis and the engine block. This may well be a stout bare braided cable so it can take a lot of vibration and flexing. Make sure it isn't breaking up where the braid joins the end lugs. Take it off, clean both ends and where it fits, coppergrease lightly and refit nice and snug.

That should be that. Fit the battery and -ve terminal and try again.
If that does the job you get promotion, if not the starter needs attention.

Either way it's not your fault anyway.

CharlesY
Click to expand...

Hi CharlesY,
I have always been told to use Vaseline on car battery terminals, and have used it on eathing points also as it's a conductive grease. Of course Coppaslip has copper in it, but is the grease conductive?

Presumably there's fancy purpose made grease to put on these, but what is the right stuff?

And of course I'm now waiting for all the Vaseline jokes...:)
 
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