2014 freelander 2 2.2 sd4 knocking noise engine sump area

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nick the gin

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91
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tunbridge wells
right got a 2014 freelander 2 2.2 40000 miles heavy knocking coming from sump area and running lumpy
knocking gets quiter when reved up ? had the sump off strained oil for swarf clean as a whistle ?
can it be balance shaft box ??? any ideas ???
if it were big end i would expect knocking to get worse ??
HEELLLPPP
 
The DW12 bottom end is really really durable, easily covering 300,000 miles without trouble.

Any knocking is a cause for concern though. The balancer shaft assembly doesn't give trouble, as long as it's had plenty of oil in the sump.

Did you check for any slop in the balancer shaft gears, while the sump was off?
Also how much slack is in the oil pump drive chain? Although at 40k, it shouldn't have much.

It would be worth doing an oil pressure check. An unusually low oil pressure might help diagnose an issue with the bearings.

Lumpy running is often down to injector issues, but this is unlikely at such a low mileage.
It's worth running an engine diagnostic, to see if it flags up a pending problem.
 
nick the gin said:
right got a 2014 freelander 2 2.2 40000 miles heavy knocking coming from sump area and running lumpy
knocking gets quiter when reved up ? had the sump off strained oil for swarf clean as a whistle ?
can it be balance shaft box ??? any ideas ???
if it were big end i would expect knocking to get worse ??
HEELLLPPP
Click to expand...

hi mate yes chain is slack i tested oil press all ok i listend again today and its more of a heavy rumble than a knock it goes quieter when revs raised ? so dont think its big end ?
 
Nodge68 said:
The DW12 bottom end is really really durable, easily covering 300,000 miles without trouble.

Any knocking is a cause for concern though. The balancer shaft assembly doesn't give trouble, as long as it's had plenty of oil in the sump.

Did you check for any slop in the balancer shaft gears, while the sump was off?
Also how much slack is in the oil pump drive chain? Although at 40k, it shouldn't have much.

It would be worth doing an oil pressure check. An unusually low oil pressure might help diagnose an issue with the bearings.

Lumpy running is often down to injector issues, but this is unlikely at such a low mileage.
It's worth running an engine diagnostic, to see if it flags up a pending problem.
Click to expand...
 
done oil press test all ok ? oil pump chain is loose , no fault codes did not test balance shafts for slack ?
is the oil pump tentioner sprung loaded or oil pressure fed ?
 
nick the gin said:
done oil press test all ok ?
Click to expand...
That should mean the bearings are ok then. Mine had no measurable wear with 120k on them. Like I said, the bottom end is generally really tough.
nick the gin said:
oil pump chain is loose
Click to expand...
That's normal, although it can appear excessively loose sometimes.
nick the gin said:
is the oil pump tentioner sprung loaded or oil pressure fed
Click to expand...
You mean the drive chain?
There's no tensioner, it's just a set the distance between the sprockets that keep it from falling off.

Have you put a stethoscope on the engine to identify the exact location the sound is coming from?
 
Nodge68 said:
That should mean the bearings are ok then. Mine had no measurable wear with 120k on them. Like I said, the bottom end is generally really tough.

That's normal, although it can appear excessively loose sometimes.

You mean the drive chain?
There's no tensioner, it's just a set the distance between the sprockets that keep it from falling off.

Have you put a stethoscope on the engine to identify the exact location the sound is coming from?
Click to expand...
only a long scewdriver to the ear , ive looked at the automatic flywheel with small camera that looks ok
just dont understand why when you raise the reves it stops knocking and is smooth ,
but on tick over is like a bag of spanners and lumpy ?????????
and am i correct that the chain only drives the oil pump ?
 
nick the gin said:
only a long scewdriver to the ear , ive looked at the automatic flywheel with small camera that looks ok
just dont understand why when you raise the reves it stops knocking and is smooth ,
but on tick over is like a bag of spanners and lumpy ?????????
and am i correct that the chain only drives the oil pump ?
Click to expand...
seems to be worse in middle to flywheel end
 
nick the gin said:
just dont understand why when you raise the reves it stops knocking and is smooth ,
but on tick over is like a bag of spanners and lumpy
Click to expand...
It's very strange, but lumpy suggests top end, causing something on the bottom end. Mine ran like a bag of spanners, but I found a nut on top of No2 piston, and I'm not the first. :eek:
nick the gin said:
and am i correct that the chain only drives the oil pump ?
Click to expand...
Yes. It's just there to drive the oil pump, nothing else.
nick the gin said:
seems to be worse in middle to flywheel end
Click to expand...
Is there any evidence of previous engine work, maybe around the throttle body area?
It's possible for various fixings to get dropped into the boost pipes while work is being done, which then end up in a cylinder. :eek::eek:
 
Nodge68 said:
It's very strange, but lumpy suggests top end, causing something on the bottom end. Mine ran like a bag of spanners, but I found a nut on top of No2 piston, and I'm not the first. :eek:

Yes. It's just there to drive the oil pump, nothing else.

Is there any evidence of previous engine work, maybe around the throttle body area?
It's possible for various fixings to get dropped into the boost pipes while work is being done, which then end up in a cylinder. :eek::eek:
Click to expand...
ive been told swirl flaps are known to break off and go thro rare but happens but i would guess that would destroy engine ?
 
nick the gin said:
ive been told swirl flaps are known to break off and go thro rare but happens but i would guess that would destroy engine ?
Click to expand...

Swirl flaps do break, but normal damage is just to the valves, which can be replaced, once the head is off.

However a 2014 engine won't have swirl flaps, so can be discounted.

It does sound like a foreign object is in a cylinder though, which is why I asked about evidence of previous work around the TB, like odd nuts, or wrong bolts fitted.
 
Nodge68 said:
Swirl flaps do break, but normal damage is just to the valves, which can be replaced, once the head is off.

However a 2014 engine won't have swirl flaps, so can be discounted.

It does sound like a foreign object is in a cylinder though, which is why I asked about evidence of previous work around the TB, like odd nuts, or wrong bolts fitted.
Click to expand...
thing is car has only been serviced by lr and no other work done at all and all the noise is coming from balance box area ???
 
nick the gin said:
thing is car has only been serviced by lr and no other work done at all and all the noise is coming from balance box area ???
Click to expand...

The balancer shaft assembly can't go out of timing within itself, as the two shafts are geared together. However that doesn't mean they can't be faulty.
The shaft assembly also can't go out of time with crankshaft, as they're geared to it.

Did you check the shaft assembly bolts were tight?

I personally wouldn't consider a vehicle being serviced by LR as proof of top quality maintenance, as most of the "LR Only" maintained vehicles I've see, looked like the "workshop cleaner" was left to repair them. :(
 
Also the balancer shafts wouldn't make it run lumpy, it just wouldn't be quite so refined.

I'm thinking top end, maybe an injector fault, which is making the bottom end complain.
 
Nodge68 said:
The balancer shaft assembly can't go out of timing within itself, as the two shafts are geared together. However that doesn't mean they can't be faulty.
The shaft assembly also can't go out of time with crankshaft, as they're geared to it.

Did you check the shaft assembly bolts were tight?

I personally wouldn't consider a vehicle being serviced by LR as proof of top quality maintenance, as most of the "LR Only" maintained vehicles I've see, looked like the "workshop cleaner" was left to repair them. :(
Click to expand...
ive got no choice ill have to pull balence shaft box off , can it be re timed with auto box still attached ?
 
Nodge68 said:
Also the balancer shafts wouldn't make it run lumpy, it just wouldn't be quite so refined.

I'm thinking top end, maybe an injector fault, which is making the bottom end complain.
Click to expand...
if it was a faulty injector surely it would throw up a fault code or even anti knock sensor would throw a code up but nothing !
 
nick the gin said:
if it was a faulty injector surely it would throw up a fault code or even anti knock sensor would throw a code up but nothing !
Click to expand...
A mechanical failure in an injector won't throw a code.
You can do an injector offset read, which would give an indication of 1 injector being miles out from the other 3.

There's no knock sensor fitted to the DW12 engine.
 
nick the gin said:
ive got no choice ill have to pull balence shaft box off , can it be re timed with auto box still attached ?
Click to expand...

Pulling the balancer assembly isn't a fun job.
You need to remove the sump, then the aluminium block extension, and the oil pump.
Once those are off, you'll need to lock the engine in the timing position, and lock the balancer shafts with the special locking plate.
The gear mesh between the balancer assembly and the crankshaft is set using various thicknesses of shims, which will need to go back in the same position as they came out.
There's a special sealant required to refit the block extension and sump too, which is a must for long term oil tightness.
It's horrible toxic stuff to, so proper PPE is required when using the sealant.

Are you definitely sure it's not something else, maybe the auto torque converter or something else gearbox related?
You really don't want to be pulling the balancer assembly if you don't have to.
 
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