200TDi - Why does my Crankshaft Sprocket/Gear move??

wil2813 · May 4, 2015

maybe pull it as forward as poss then chock it from behind with some wood, remove pulley above out your way & you may just get a grinder/cutter in there if you are steady with it. firstly cut 12 oclock vertically down as much as poss towards woodruff slot then 9oclock horizontal if your 90% through a good crack on the quarter cut section with hammer & chisel should sort it.or push right back & grind flat the halfmoon but getting the remains out later could be a issue. a quick pic below of one removed.

Saint.V8 · May 4, 2015

wil2813 said:
maybe pull it as forward as poss then chock it from behind with some wood, remove pulley above out your way & you may just get a grinder in there if you are steady with it. firstly cut 12 oclock vertically down as much as poss towards woodruff slot then 9oclock horizontal if your 90% through a good crack on the quarter cut section with hammer & chisel should sort it. a quick pic below of one removed.

Cheers Will,

It only comes forward about 15mm so it just clears the rear of the timing case.

Getting a grinder in there is limited....what are your thoughts on pulling the sprocket off and using force to shear the rest of the woodruff??

It seems strange that this has happened, as the rest of the engine and the vehicle has been very well maintained, the rocker space was is spotless, all the bolts I have undone to do the work required has previously been copper-slipped and not a rounded bolt/nut in sight.

It was bought from a chap who's family are Land Rover mad, well off (huge mansion up north in Lincolnshire) and has been maintained by the family's garage on an account...so has been repaired/maintained regardless of cost.

there was certainly thread lock on the damper as even using the puller it was an incredible effort to pull it off the shaft!

wil2813 · May 4, 2015

Saint.V8 said:
Cheers Will,

Getting a grinder in there is limited....what are your thoughts on pulling the sprocket off and using force to shear the rest of the woodruff??

there was certainly thread lock on the damper as even using the puller it was an incredible effort to pull it off the shaft!

ant prob pull with force till it lets go afterall it gotta come off & will be already damaged behind there so whats there to loose

imo the belt was changed & maybe done 100% but the pulley/halfmoon could have been worn a little to start with so it was only a matter of time

flat · May 4, 2015

i would take ages but what about a dremel - you can get reinforced grinder discs for them

Dremel SpeedClic Metal Cutting Wheel 5 Pack: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

I have had some luck with those type above, might be enough to weaken the pulley so you can smack it off with a hammer?

I dont know really though sorry

Kwakerman · May 4, 2015

Punching straight down (vertically) on one end of the key should cause the other end to rise (due to the key shape) and may help. If you do this don't use a pointed punch as that will spread the key metal, try and use a wide flat surface one. Do you think you have enough space and key left to be able to Mig weld something onto the key to give you a bit more leverage (plus heat may help)? Alternatively would grinding the rest of the key off allow the pulley to come off, then you would 'only' be left with getting the key remnants out but better access. If you do grind the pulley off then you will have to be wary about getting and grinding residue in past the crank seal as that will play havoc with your engine.

Datatek · May 5, 2015

Saint.V8 said:
Vid part 2....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx_HhI7FGIc

So the top of the woodruff key has spread over, I assume it has also damaged the rear of the slot in the pulley leaving a lump of metal that you cannot get past.
If it were me, I would edge the pulley as far forward as possible and cut the pulley off.
I'm a little surprised you cannot either knock all or part of the key out, or chisel it off flush with the crank with a suitable implement.

zeaphod · May 5, 2015

I'd try to cut/drill the sprocket as much as possible to create a weak spot, then apply a sharp chisel and adjusting tool no.1 (lump hammer). There is a fair chance that the crank has been damaged, but it's worth a try.

trax · May 5, 2015

bigger hammer and punch on the key

Saint.V8 · May 5, 2015

Done big hammer on key....no chance, from the residue on the edges, looks like the key has been loctited in!

Gonna try pulling it off again, failing that, I have some nice shiny cutting discs in the tool box, or some very sharp Dormer Drills somewhere...to break it off!

trax · May 5, 2015

Saint.V8 said:
Done big hammer on key....no chance, from the residue on the edges, looks like the key has been loctited in!

Gonna try pulling it off again, failing that, I have some nice shiny cutting discs in the tool box, or some very sharp Dormer Drills somewhere...to break it off!

you'll kill the seals, but at this stage.. what about heating up the key

Saint.V8 · May 5, 2015

UPDATE TIME:

So, With the help of a cobbled together puller using M5 stud, a bunch of washers and nuts and the Fuel Pump/Crank Pulley puller - once lined up correctly, she slid off nicely!

First time I tried pulling I had it lined up incorrectly and was basically trying to pull the sprocket over [what is left of] the keys.

After a bit of deft whacking with a drift and tool No.1, they popped out....well the rear key was a bit of a faff and once it slid up out of the key way it wouldn't budge so I have to get a pair of mole-grips onto it, this damaged the crank seal, but I have a new one anyway!

And thankfully the crank key ways look in fine fettle......

New keys and sprocket is already on order (ordered this afternoon - delivery tomorrow, but I am out in the evening after work so rebuild will wait till Thursday)

Thanks for all the great suggestions.....and once finished there is a mammoth How To on the way...have almost 180 photos already (to be edited down I think!)

Photos attached!

Kwakerman · May 5, 2015

Good effort, time to sit back and have a beer or two! I'd give the seal area a good clean (use the hoover if the OH isn't looking) to get all the crud out, probably worth an oil change / flush / filter with cheepo oil to make sure there are no metallic particles floating around inside the engine. The remnants of the key and sprocket (good name for a pub) must have gone somewhere.

Grrrrrr · May 5, 2015

Saint.V8 said:
UPDATE TIME:

So, With the help of a cobbled together puller using M5 stud, a bunch of washers and nuts and the Fuel Pump/Crank Pulley puller - once lined up correctly, she slid off nicely!

First time I tried pulling I had it lined up incorrectly and was basically trying to pull the sprocket over [what is left of] the keys.

After a bit of deft whacking with a drift and tool No.1, they popped out....well the rear key was a bit of a faff and once it slid up out of the key way it wouldn't budge so I have to get a pair of mole-grips onto it, this damaged the crank seal, but I have a new one anyway!

And thankfully the crank key ways look in fine fettle......

New keys and sprocket is already on order (ordered this afternoon - delivery tomorrow, but I am out in the evening after work so rebuild will wait till Thursday)

Thanks for all the great suggestions.....and once finished there is a mammoth How To on the way...have almost 180 photos already (to be edited down I think!)

Photos attached!

That's a bloody good effort. Well done!

Kwakerman · May 5, 2015

I think you may now find it'll be a bit easier to set the timing now

Saint.V8 · May 5, 2015

Kwakerman said:
Good effort, time to sit back and have a beer or two! I'd give the seal area a good clean (use the hoover if the OH isn't looking) to get all the crud out, probably worth an oil change / flush / filter with cheepo oil to make sure there are no metallic particles floating around inside the engine. The remnants of the key and sprocket (good name for a pub) must have gone somewhere.

Cheers Kwakerman, just really pleased the crank looks OK....and I love the name of the pub!!

Will be doing an oil change as you say, it had to go somewhere!!

Grrrrrr said:
That's a bloody good effort. Well done!

Cheers J, was a bit touch and go and with it being the Girlfriends pride and joy, I was getting a little sweaty I might have to pull the engine apart!

Kwakerman said:
I think you may now find it'll be a bit easier to set the timing now

Oh hell yes, I was wondering why the last time I timed the pump I was having a mere of a time!!!

Should be much easier now the belt ain't moving

!

wil2813 · May 5, 2015

:5bhurray:looks pretty good tbh m8

lynall · May 6, 2015

Remember to grease the crank before fitting the gear and the pulley, but loctite the bolt and do it up ferkin tight, then once done up paint mark the bolt in relation to the pulley so a quick visual at service time is all thats needed.

GATSO · May 6, 2015

Paint mark on the crank pulley bolt is a brilliant idea [emoji106][emoji106]

Saint.V8 · May 6, 2015

+1 to the paint marking....blindingly good idea

zeaphod · May 6, 2015

Great job, and a real result with the crank looking good. You must have stepped in something recently - buy a lottery ticket!

200TDi - Why does my Crankshaft Sprocket/Gear move??

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