200TDi - Why does my Crankshaft Sprocket/Gear move??

Saint.V8 · May 3, 2015

As title....doing some work on a TDi (Disco) Converted Ninety after the No.8 Valve pushrod snapped (twice)....took front cover off and noted that the Crank at TDC and flywheel pinned, that the Camshaft pulley was a couple of teeth out and that I can't see an arrow for the Crank timing mark. Also once I removed the belt, the Crank Sprocket can rotate a few degrees due to a machined slot where the woodruff key goes....!!!

(see photos)

How do I know how to time this up when I replace the belt....???

Kwakerman · May 3, 2015

There should be no movement of the crank pulley on the crank. Looks like the pulley key slot has worn, the pulley key slot should be the same width as the slot in the crank and the woodruff key should be a tight fit in both. If the key looks like it has been damaged then replace it to save any hassle in the future.

Kwakerman · May 3, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPzC_Dr6KzU at 12.34

Kwakerman · May 3, 2015

Having a second look I think you may have the wrong crank pulley fitted, may also explain some of that oil leak

Saint.V8 · May 4, 2015

Kwakerman said:
There should be no movement of the crank pulley on the crank. Looks like the pulley key slot has worn, the pulley key slot should be the same width as the slot in the crank and the woodruff key should be a tight fit in both. If the key looks like it has been damaged then replace it to save any hassle in the future.

Key way not worn, it has been machined that way!

Kwakerman said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPzC_Dr6KzU at 12.34

Have watched multiple times before commencing, as I like to be well informed before hand!

Kwakerman said:
Having a second look I think you may have the wrong crank pulley fitted, may also explain some of that oil leak

No oil leak, that is remnants of coolant as I have taken the head off too to replace the valve guides and stem seals!.

I am thinking it might be the wrong sprocket too, but I am sure I have read somewhere about this...just for the life of me I can't remember where!

The sprocket can freely rotate a few degrees from one side of the key way to the other....but it is fitted tightly to the crankshaft and will need to be pulled off the shaft!

Any other ideas peeps??

Kwakerman · May 4, 2015

Only one I can find on fleabay but appears to have a standard slot LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 1 200 TDI 2.5 1995 - CRANK TIMING BELT SPROCKET | eBay

Kwakerman · May 4, 2015

It may have been machined to turn it into an adjustable one to allow fine tuning of the timing. If it was then I would have thought there would be various shims that could go either side of the key to adjust the sprocket position and also take up all the extra movement. Either that or there should be some sort of special offset key to fit, like this but with wider sprocket side Tyga Performance - Woodruff Key, Offset, 4 Degrees, NSR250 - High Performance

Saint.V8 · May 4, 2015

That is possible...but as you say there should be a way of then locking or shimming the sprocket in the new timed position....!!

Heading back out to have another look to see what I can see....and to replace the cylinder head!

cornish rattler · May 4, 2015

Can't tell from the pic but is it an ally sprocket or a steel one if its an ally one replace it with a steel one ally ones can wear if its been slack at some point in its life

Kwakerman · May 4, 2015

To be honest if it was me I would replace the sprocket and key with new/replacement standard items. They work well enough and will remove any potential re-occurances

Saint.V8 · May 4, 2015

It is steel.....

Heres the fun part......

If I rotate it clockwise till it stops, then I can pull the sprocket towards the end of the shaft but by only 10mm then it hits a very solid mechanical stop and will not budge even with a puller....and wont turn the other way....

Push it back and it turns a few degrees then turn it till it stops anticockwise and it will not pull forwards or off the shaft.....

Will try to youtube a vid.....

Saint.V8 · May 4, 2015

Vid link.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-Dg8g9ZXXQ

Kwakerman · May 4, 2015

Curious to say the least, when the crank damper is fitted and tightened up does it clamp the sprocket and stop it turning?

Kwakerman · May 4, 2015

Looking at the crank parts list its a half moon shaped key (Land Rover Defender Discovery 200Tdi Crankshaft pulley woodruff key 235770 | eBay) so you may be able to gently lever it out when the sprocket is pushed fully back, that may release it

GATSO · May 4, 2015

Remove wudruf key then see off pulley will extract

Saint.V8 · May 4, 2015

Kwakerman said:
Looking at the crank parts list its a half moon shaped key (Land Rover Defender Discovery 200Tdi Crankshaft pulley woodruff key 235770 | eBay) so you may be able to gently lever it out when the sprocket is pushed fully back, that may release it

GATSO said:
Remove wudruf key then see off pulley will extract

That is the next job...to ry and remove the key....

Had this from a well known and kind fellow on the Range Rover board...

wil2813 said:
ant ive seen this before m8 im going to be blunt basically its foobared. someones been there before with the belt & didn't thread lock it when torqued back up.the halfmoon key at the front of the crank is to locate the crank pulley, directly & inline behind this is the same halfmoon key for the belt pulley. the crank bolt has loosened which has shattered/destroyed the rear halfmoon totally. slowly its chattered away/wearing away the belt pulley slot aswell.sadly 99.9% it damages the crankshaft this is why you cannot remove the belt pulley easily.you will have to try & cut/grind whatever the belt pulley off but your not going to like what you find when removed,sorry m8 but a poss new crank or short engine might be needed,hope im wrong this time.

MY REPLY....
You could have lied to me Will.....

We have some pretty talented engineers and machinists at work who make Aircraft components and tooling....so it may be salvagable.

First thing is to get the crank sprocket off and see what we are working with.....

lynall · May 4, 2015

I reckon that slot has worn that width as crank bolt not tight enough, the reason you cant remove it is the back of the key or the slot has worn over thus stopping the pulley coming off.

Saint.V8 · May 4, 2015

Further too...the slot isn't oversized!!

Took the rad etc out so I could get a closer look straight on and the Woodruff Key has actually sheared off... vid to follow....

I have tried drifting the key out, but to no avail, also tried to lever it out, no chance....

Need to get the sprocket off so I can see what I am left with.....thoughts?

Saint.V8 · May 4, 2015

Vid part 2....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx_HhI7FGIc

jackmac · May 4, 2015

Given that you can actually get the sprocket a fair way forward, you could cut if off if you are careful.

200TDi - Why does my Crankshaft Sprocket/Gear move??

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