200tdi smoke!

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weeee man

New Member
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Location
gloucester
hi
is it normal to have smoke on start up and how long for?? just had recent engine conversion and im worried rings may be worn, what other symptoms are there? :mad:
 
thought this site was here to help? if i know something some1 doesnt i help them! if you dont want to help then dont bother posting on my thread ya doughnut! :doh:
 
thought this site was here to help? if i know something some1 doesnt i help them! if you dont want to help then dont bother posting on my thread ya doughnut! :doh:


yer rings, stem seals and pump are ****ed
 
thought this site was here to help? if i know something some1 doesnt i help them! if you dont want to help then dont bother posting on my thread ya doughnut! :doh:
so ya cant be fecking arsed to use the search function and want us to tell ya all the info,the search is there for lazy feckers like yourself,u aint doin to well if ya want peoples help on ere
 
White smoke for 5 seconds on start up is a healthy Landy. If it's black you've got problems!

Nooo!

It depends on what engine you have. A cloud of white smoke from a 2.5 N/A or 2.5 TD is quite normal and perfectly acceptable on it's first start of the day because it relies on an indirect injection system which massively overfuels on startup. The ancient / inefficient nature of the injection system on these two engines which works on the principal of pre-combustion (snail shell like cavities in the head which fill with fuel and then dribble the fuel into the cylinder) means that only part of the fuel that is injected in the startup sequence is burned and the rest escapes partially burned, or warmed up (white smoke). As the engine starts to warm up properly, this type of injection system becomes more effective and the smoke starts to clear.

A later engine with direct injection such as the 200 or 300 tdi should always start with a 'slug' or a puff of black smoke and then be smokeless after around no more than seven or eight seconds, even in very cold temperatures. The fuel system in these engines also over-fuels on startup, but because the injection system is much more refined and much more efficient, all of the excess fuel is burned in the initial startup sequence (black smoke).

Remember, white smoke is either partially burned diesel or water and it is possible that you might have some condensation forming in your exhaust pipe or a leak that is allowing water from your coolant system, into a cylinder. Blue smoke is oil and if your engine is drawing in and burning a mixture of oil and diesel together you will get a nice thick gray / brown smoke that stinks. Black smoke is over fuelling but your engine has the capacity to burn it off as opposed to leaving it only partially burned (white smoke). It is quite common for an engine to start with a little blue smoke (burning oil) which is not ideal and it can be caused by quite a few things. In the case of your 200tdi it will be getting into the engine via:

1) The breather pipe between your rocker cover and your air intake
2) Oil seal in the turbo compressor housing
3) Valve stem / guide seals
4) Seeping past piston rings in a worn engine
5) Blowing past the head gasket between an oil passage and a cylinder

I have just been having a problem with burning oil on the initial, cold start up of the day with my 200tdi. Mine is more than likely due to the fact that I over filled it with oil, which has found its way back into the air intake. I'd suggest that you remove your top intercooler pipe and have a look to see whether or not it is oiled up. If it's relatively clean then the problem is internal to the engine, such as worn bores, worn rings, a cracked piston(s), a blown head gasket or worn valve oil seals.

If your intercooler top hose is full of oil, or if it looks mucky, remove the cyclone breather unit from the side of your rocker cover and follow Busters cleaning steps here: http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f41/cyclone-breather-76543.html. You will also need to remove the breather pipe and clean it through with a rag and length of wire to pull the rag from one side through to the other. You should then also remove the intercooler and flush it through with petrol until it runs clear, to make sure that you have removed any excess oil from there. Check and clean your boost pipes and make sure that your air filter is not soaked in oil. Start and run your engine up to operating temperature and give it some work up a steep hill to burn off any excess oil in the air intake manifold and then leave it to cool back down.

If that doesn't fix your problem, you've got internal issues!
Talk about spoon feeding :D

-Pos
 
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Nooo!

Blue smoke is oil

-Pos


Not agreeing with blue solely being oil.

Just had a massive blue smoke problem with my 200tdi today, it was like a fog and was pumping it out and misfiring.
Cured it completely to no visible smoke except for a little black when flooring the throttle by bleeding the leak off pipes as they were full of air after fitting new ones. Just that one little operation cured all the blue smoke.
 
Not really, every single 200 Tdi I've ever seen produces a black slug of smoke on start up :confused:

Agreed. I get a huge puff of black smoke on start up then that's it. I get no smoke at all after the cloud on startup. Might get some if I floor it then take my foot off straight away but that's it. I never get white smoke.
 
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Not agreeing with blue solely being oil.

Just had a massive blue smoke problem with my 200tdi today, it was like a fog and was pumping it out and misfiring.
Cured it completely to no visible smoke except for a little black when flooring the throttle by bleeding the leak off pipes as they were full of air after fitting new ones. Just that one little operation cured all the blue smoke.

Hmm, I might give that a try tomorrow because I've had mine off recently to fit recon'd injectors and a new pump. I've read your comments on lr4x4 and I will try them out to see if they resolve my problem too. I will also be checking the valve guide oil seals are seated correctly. I have also just been thinking about the Bosch VE fuel return line and it's got me wondering. The banjo bolt with the mesh filter is a calibrated return (set by the small pin hole) which maintains internal injection pump pressures. I think it's something ridiculous like 700BAR of pressure that is forced through that pin hole and back into the return line to the tank. That return line is also the same line as the spill rail line however, and I wonder whether or not it is possible for the fuel forced out of the IP to find its way back along the spill rail (fighting the leak off), which will cause problems. That would certainly be the case if the return line between the banjo and the fuel tank is blocked or gunked up. I will blow down the pump to tank pipe with an air line and ensure there is no air in the leak off pipes and see if that makes any difference.

-Pos
 
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The banjo bolt with the mesh filter is a calibrated return (set by the small pin hole) which maintains internal injection pump pressures. I think it's something ridiculous like 700BAR of pressure that is forced through that pin hole and back into the return line to the tank. That return line is also the same line as the spill rail line however, and I wonder whether or not it is possible for the fuel forced out of the IP to find its way back along the spill rail (fighting the leak off), which will cause problems. That would certainly be the case if the return line between the banjo and the fuel tank is blocked or gunked up. I will blow down the pump to tank pipe with an air line and ensure there is no air in the leak off pipes and see if that makes any difference.

-Pos

700BAR? Don't know where you’re getting your information from but the fuel flows back at about lift pump pressure, one bar or two tops. Think about it, if it was 700 bar (about 10000 PSI) I think our return lines made up with bits of rubber pipe and hose jubilee clips would we blasting off left right and centre.

These little holes in diesel system returns are there to allow LOTS of air to pass, and not a lot of diesel and to indeed allow the pump to backfill with diesel. Then the injection galleries can pick up diesel and send it down the injection lines at high pressure.

Leak off pipes must be in good working order, if these leak out, it will cause problems, particularly in starting, if in doubt, get a foot of leak off pipe and replace them all.

If air can be sucked in on the pickup side, it is possible over night for example, for the injection lines to run back towards the pump and seep into the IP body, this means the first injection or two is incomplete, and will not vaporise properly, which can cause white smoke in the TDI’s.
 
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