2.5TD Timing Problems!

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pos

pos

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Hey all, this is on behalf of and email that I receieved from a member of the forum who doesn't understand how to post, so please aim the responses to me as if it was to a new person!

Here's the email:

I have a 19j 2.5TD, I recently popped the head gasket and at the sametime the timing belt. I have put the head back and only found a bent push rod. I have moved on to the timing belt. When i line up the dots on the injector pump and the camshaft pulley all is well, but when i then move the crank to TDC it hits number one exhaust valve (as it is pushed down). If i move the cam pulley clockwise the exhaust valve closes and TDC is possible, however the cam is now about five teeth out. I would have expected both valves on pot one to be closed at TDC. Have I missed something simple?

Cheers
 
Hey! If you can type that you could have created this! It's the exact same process :D Where you clicked the create reply button, if you were logged in and on the home page there would have been a create topic button next to it. Just for future reference!
 
Hi Pos and Discomania, I replied by clicking on "quick reply to this message" Could you screen dump the page showing the create button and email it to me? Cheers guys I'll get there in the end!
 
Click on the Defender 90/110/130 forum and just above the first post on the left there will be a create thread button, click on it give it a title and then type your question/rant/comment...

As boydy says, are you lining the dots up with the marks on the chest or are you trying to line the dots up?
 
Hi guy's have finally found the create new thread button!!

Have been Lining dots up with there respective arrows on the timing housing. However when lining up the cam (dot with arrow) number one exhaust valve is pushed down. If I put the crank to TDC before lining up the cam, then it is not possible to get the cam to line up (as it is trying to push the valve onto number one piston which is at TDC

Any Idea's Guys??
 
Turn the crank past TDC, just a bit, line the camshaft up, then turn the crank back a bit. Or try jiggling, with combinations of those. Sometimes in the past I have had to CAREFULLY force the crankshaft round past the valve, then it drops in ok.
 
Hi Guys. Not able to wiggle the cam into position buy moving the crank back and forth, as when the dot on the cam is lined up with the arrow the exhaust valve is pushed down. This prevents the piston from reaching the TDC.

Does any one know? When the engine is at TDC do we expect the inlet and exhaust on pot one to be closed? If not does anyone know the angle that the valves are suppost to open at?
 
no 1 tdc should have both rockers rocking (as on compression stroke), your cam is one revolution out as you will find that no 4 is on the rocking position
 
hi Stig thanks for the reply, when you say rocking do you mean that neither of the valves are beeing pushed down?:confused:

also if the cam is 180 deg out would that not mean that the dot on the pulley would be 180 deg from the arrow?

i have found that if i move the cam pulley about 20 degree clockwise then the exhaust valve on pot one closes (then are both valves rocking?)(further clockwise turning of the cam pulley then starts the inlet on pot one pushing down) does this back up your theory of the cam being 180deg out?

also when you said cam is one rev out did you mean one rev of the crank?
 
yes meaning that both valves are in there closed position, check no 4 you will find it is in the rocking position (or should be). position the crank midway between TDC and BDC that will move put the pistons in a "safe" position down the bore out of the way of any opening valves, now you can rotate the cam to its correct position. Once the cam is correct rotate the crank to tdc
 
hi Stig and others. I have looked into whether the cam is 180 out.

buy rotating the cam 180 (so that the dot is 180 from the arrow) does result in the valves on pot one rocking, however the piston in pot four is now hitting number four exhaust (as opposed to pot one and valve one).

the ratio of turns of the cam to the crank is 1:2, therefore TDC will appear twice for one turn of the cam, at one of the TDC the valves on pot one will be rocking (pot one to fire), at the other TDC the rockers on pot four will be rocking (pot 4 to fire). Which pot should fire first?

Stig, Given that the firing order is 1,3,4,2 would you expect number one to fire first, hence both valves rocking on number one?:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
I had this discussion on here a while back, with CharlseY i think...

As I understand it, it is not possible for the engine to be half a cycle out. Picture if you will:

With one full rotation of the crank, all four pots do one complete up and down, and will be at the same position as they were to start with. If no.1 is at TDC, then one rotation later and 1 is still at TDC.

One full rotation of the camshaft will open and close all the valves. However... Say for arguments sake, with the timing marks lined up the engine is about to fire number 1. Number1 pot will be at/approching TDC. Rotate the crank one full turn, this is still the same.

The problem you are having is that when you try to line up the pulleys, the piston comes up and pushes the valves.

Firstly, a mistake I made, you are lining up the dot on the crank pulley, not the woodruff key?

Due to the way the engine works, there will be no TDc where neither pots one or four have all valves closed, so... How I did mine...

Basically, if you set the camshaft position, then turn the crank round past the valves, (very caerfully and slowly) so that it pushes the valves in and then lets them pop out again, you can turn the crank back a bit to line the dots up. This assumes that the pulleys havn't slipped on the shaft, but i can't see how they have.

Hope this helps.

Also, now I have been on here a bit longer, please correct me about what i have said above... I cant see how its wrong.
 
thanks Boydy, I will try the gental over shoot then turn back tomorrow. will write with news.

P.S. Definately lining the crank wood keys with the arrow on chest. (did noticed he difference between TDC mark and key ways on pulley, thought I had cracked the problem until i found the mark on the timing cover!!!:( )
 
Hi Boydy,

sorry, thought you where talking about the Crank pulley, this lines up using the key way versus the arrow on the casing, the crank pulley is marked up with TDC. the Mistake I made was lining up the TDC mark on the crank pulley with the arrow on the inner timing casing (the TDC mark on the crank pulley lines up with a mark on the outer timing casing cover, which results in the keyways lining up with the internal arrow)

when i line up the small dot on the cam pulley with the arrow on the internal timing casing (pictured in the haynes) it pushes the exhaust on Pot one down, this stops TDC being achieved.
 
Nah the timing dot on the pulley lines up with the arrow. I know it does...

Don't do it to TDC, cos then the timing wont work - the haynbes way relies on you locking the flywheel and pump in place - not using the arrows.
 
Hi Boydy,

do you thinkk that the keyway on the crank is not accurate enough for the lining up? I could understand it could be a few degrees out, but the cam appears to be 20 degrees out.

I am thinking that the cam needs to come out for an inspection. I have already noticed that the enfloat in the cam is 10 times what the spec is in the manual.
 
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