1.8 1999 Manual MEMS 19 Rough Running and Unable to Rev

What a pain in the *RS* Freelander I have in for repair at this moment in time.

It will just about start then rough as anything
No power to pull away
Unable to rev up unless you rapidly stab at throttle pedal and revs will then rise and engine "mechanically" sounds sweet as
Put throttle down too quick it cuts out
Pinking noise down front pipe

lol is that enough for you too start with !

OK heres where I am up to !

Camshaft sprocket bolts removed to ensure correct cam wheel position and cambelt timing - All OK

Loom removed and fully "circuit checked" and all connections tested and OK'd then retaped (Loom is OK)

ECU has been tried on another identical Freelander and that Freeleander ran perfect (so ECU is OK)

Idle Control Valve swapped with a known good one - fault still there

2 x Engine Coolant Temp Sensors swapped with known good ones - fault still there

Throttle body swapped with a known good one - fault still there

Cap leads and rotor swapped for known good items - fault still there

It runs a single coil so (yes you guessed it) I swapped with a known good coil - fault still there

lol - can you see where I am going here ?

Inlet Temp Sensor swapped with a known good one - fault still there

2 x YWB "relay" box's (vehicle has A/C fitted) swapped with known good ones - fault still there

Crank Position Sensor swapped with a known good one - fault still there

(are you keeping up with me ?)

All fuses and relays checked and appear fine

My Bosch KTS 650 diagnostics now only has 2 x permanent faults

This is exactly as they appear

3 Unknow (very helpful this one !)

14 Inlet Manifold Pressure Sensor Fault

Note :- ignition Key on and engine NOT running the Bosch Diagnostics reads 100 Kpa (aka 1 bar) so I cannot see a problem there and the reading drops when engine run albeit very rough running so this indicates a lower than atmos pressure in manifold - all seems OK

What is the MEMS 3 code relating to ?

Tomorrow tank fuel pump is being removed and the filter inspected/replaced

Also

I have a doner O2 sensor to try as well

HELP !

Thanx for any usefull suggestions

Blimey!

I think the pinking is your clue, possibly timing out in 2 cylinders, I know you checked allignment, but the tensioner could be duff and always a possibility the wrong belt was fitted??
(A few teeth extra difference in the belts, between manual and auto tensioners)

Next up would be fuel pump....IMHO


Seeing as you are trade, FORD question,

why did they not put any bleed points on the petrol duratec engines? (2006) I just did a coolant leak test for a relative and I was head scratching to find the bleed points.....It doesnt have any!!!!


Keep us posted on the FL1

Northern Irelander said:

Blimey!

Click to expand...

Imagine how I feel ! - lol

Northern Irelander said:

I think the pinking is your clue, possibly timing out in 2 cylinders, I know you checked allignment, but the tensioner could be duff and always a possibility the wrong belt was fitted??
(A few teeth extra difference in the belts, between manual and auto tensioners)

Click to expand...

The "pinking" is more of a description of the sound than the engine actually pre-igniting (if that makes sense)

It had previously crossed my mind that the wrong belt could be fitted but after "numerous" rotations of the engine ALL timing marks were where they should be.

Northern Irelander said:

Next up would be fuel pump....IMHO

Click to expand...

Stayed at home and watched the F1 today so didnt bother to venture into workshop to face the FL1 (could think of other names to call it) and I will be revisiting the YWB fuel and ignition relay box and then remove will fuel pump and check etc - not much else it can be now

Northern Irelander said:

Seeing as you are trade, FORD question,

why did they not put any bleed points on the petrol duratec engines? (2006) I just did a coolant leak test for a relative and I was head scratching to find the bleed points.....It doesnt have any!!!!

Click to expand...

To be fair not all cars have a bleed point for the coolant and I find keeping the expansion tank full and then pulsing the revs dislodges any air then a short run on the road, let cool down re-check and top-up if required then all should be good (most cars aint like the good old K Series thankfully !)

Northern Irelander said:

Keep us posted on the FL1

Click to expand...

lol I will

Wonder if you could have an air leak into the inlet side of the engine, either in the inlet ducting or manifold.

I was going to say as above, might have led to the MAP sensor fault code. If you block the breather what happens?

As above, I know a few cars that have not had bleed points and for some reason they seem to be diesels. I hate the K16 bleed system, especilaly the one in FL1s as they have that crappy little bleed screw on the heater matrix pipework.

As for the fault code, does it show p0003? Or is there an attached P00xx code to it?

If its P0003 then:

P0003 Fuel Volume Regulator Control Circuit Low

UPDATE

lol dont even begin to think it is sorted !!

Seeing as this FL1 is a special build "commercial" model I have had to remove a mesh guard from behind front seats and the rear load floor panel to gain access to the fuel pump/sender unit

Stripped the pump and back flushed the fuel filter - it was not blocked but a large amount of c**p came out

Flushed out fuel line

Cleaned mesh from inside pump

Rebuilt pump assy

Connected pressure gauge on fuel pipe on inlet manifold - reading of 54psi was present so pressure regulator is OK (3.6 bar)

Fitted a brand new set of plugs, cap, rotor and set of leads - No Different fault still there !

Mantamad said:

Wonder if you could have an air leak into the inlet side of the engine, either in the inlet ducting or manifold.

Click to expand...

Removed inlet manifold again and checked for cracks splits leaks etc - Nothing !

Refited manifold

Ran a compression test with all spark plugs out - between 220 & 225 psi across all 4 cylinders - All good

Removed cam belt and reset belt timing AGAIN - No difference at all

Fitted a new vacum box (inbetween manifold and ecu) on vac pipe as it had a very weak connection pipe

Engine runs exactly the same ! - absolutely c**p lol

I now though have NO stored faults on ECU !

Only item left to swap / replace is the 02 sensor !

Anyone else got any ideas ?

pauldoubleyou said:

As for the fault code, does it show p0003? Or is there an attached P00xx code to it?

If its P0003 then:

P0003 Fuel Volume Regulator Control Circuit Low

Click to expand...

Bosch on MEMS shows no P codes

Note - the code on the Bosch KTS was simply " 3 unknown" but that has now gone

ALSO - when I live read the 02 sensor I get a reading of 0.44v if I plug another 02 sensor in (but not screwed into manifold) I get same 0.44v reading - Can anyone do a live reading of their "running" FL1 and post up the voltage reading ?

Have just looked on Autodata for 02 sensor voltage readings and 0.44v is OK

Ah well keep looking - lol

UPDATE

Manifold removed (yet again)

Coil disconnected

Turn engine over

Injectors pulse and flow fuel for apprx 10 pulses

Injectors stop - I keep turning engine over

Injectors pulse 10 times again

This repeats for as long as I crank engine over

Fuel pressure holds steady at 50 - 55 psi

So am no further to solving this FL1

So been out to a friends garage and raided his diagnostics cupboard - lol

lets see what this lot can find !

Note:- As you can see from 2nd pic I have yet again revisited the cam timing - lol

The Kent green ones are the most troublesome

Northern Irelander said:

Kent

Click to expand...

Well I certainly call it something similar - lol

UPDATE

OK getting near now - lol

It is what ever controls the injector duration

The injector pulse is not increasing as the revs try to increase causing fuel starvation

Fuel pressure remains high at all times so pump appears OK

ECU was fine on another vehicle

Fuel rail coming off tomorrow and further tests

ANYONE ELSE GOT ANY IDEAS ?

Yes,the .44v from the Oxy sensor is not OK,it should cycle between 0 and 0.8v. The .44v is just enough over the .42v threshold for Mems to see a rich signal - where it will then narrow down the injector pulse width to lean it off - to then see a 0v, (Lean) signal.Then widen to get rich,etc,etc.
Mems on a 1.8 K series always has a shi--y lambda waveform when viewed on a scope,its never a nice even one like say Gems v8's - but its good enough for the ecu to work with.The rich part of the signal will always be longer,(In time) than the lean part even with a hot engine.
They often suffer from fried oxy sensors and cooked cats where peeps keep driving them with misfires caused by shagged plugs/leads/caps or rotor.
Also beware cheap "Fit anything" Oxy sensors.

Sorry I meant the 0.44v is ignition on engine not running

These are the Autodata readings I have been working with

eightinavee said:

They often suffer from fried oxy sensors and cooked cats where peeps keep driving them with misfires caused by shagged plugs/leads/caps or rotor.

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I have another "genuine" O2 sensor to try and also the exhaust will be removed (once I get "paying" customers cars done first - lol)

Thanx for any help - keep it coming

Today's Update

T4 has allowed me to run Tune Up mode

Feathered throttle to get engine warm enough for T4

Now I have 3 faults as found by T4

Fault 000E - pressure sensor fault

Fault 0015 - loss of sync while running

Fault 0029 - crank sensor fault detected

I have a spare CPS so will replace and try again

Any more ideas in the faults anyone ?

I'd change the crank sensor,can you scope it ? - it would be nice to see what the ecu is seeing.I'd also connect up a vac gauge to the inlet manifold,see whats going on there.Injector pulse width is set by coolant temp,engine speed,throttle opening,manifold depression,oxy sensor,(When operating closed loop)air temp etc,etc.So with Testbook hooked up there you have a great big advantage in being able to see all that as live data - which is where the answer usually comes from.
To avoid the pointless waste of time/fuel in getting the coolant temp over the lower limit set by Testbook, I plug a rotary pot into the coolant temp sensor plug,then adjust it to show say 95c,you can then do all the live data tests straight away.

eightinavee said:

I'd change the crank sensor,can you scope it ? - it would be nice to see what the ecu is seeing.

Click to expand...

CPS changed and the CPS fault and the Syncro fault now cleared

Engine running still not right though - lol - but must admit after using T4 and carrying out multiple times the Tune-Up mode there is definetaly some improvement

eightinavee said:

I'd also connect up a vac gauge to the inlet manifold,see whats going on there.

Click to expand...

OK will do and post results

eightinavee said:

Injector pulse width is set by coolant temp,engine speed,throttle opening,manifold depression,oxy sensor,(When operating closed loop)air temp etc,etc.So with Testbook hooked up there you have a great big advantage in being able to see all that as live data - which is where the answer usually comes from.

Click to expand...

The Testbook laptop is not working so I only have the live date given on the Hand Held T4

eightinavee said:

To avoid the pointless waste of time/fuel in getting the coolant temp over the lower limit set by Testbook, I plug a rotary pot into the coolant temp sensor plug,then adjust it to show say 95c,you can then do all the live data tests straight away.

Click to expand...

lol - I was simply going to earth the temp sensor but ran engine to warm up instead

Workshop actually smelt of "very rich" mixture during running

ALso T4 now has a problem with the IACV and requests that the Dynamic Stepper Control is repaired / replaced to continue Tune-Up mode

As mentioned earlier the T4 Tune-Up is improving things but still no Ceeegaaar

Keep the ideas coming