Petrol and diesel don't mix

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teddywood1 said:
just wondering how many of you have GCSE or simular in Electronics
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Got an a level in electrical engineering good enough to have an opinion?




davethsparky said:
As I understand it the problem with phones on planes is that 100+ phones all hunting for signal as they come in to land makes a hell of a lot of that chattering noise in the pilots headphones when he's trying to listen to th control tower.
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Nope not at all the only thing mobile phones could do at a very certain frequency was make the 2 terrain needles move erratically. Wouldn't effect autopilot would make any pilot **** themselves so yes very very dangerous but 99% of the planes in use today are not affected due to both planes being better insulated and mobile phones being better insulated and using different frequency's. It was early 90's phone though so I was inaccurate.
 
Phones can and do effect stuff. The concerns of EMC between gadgets started many years ago and continued to be a problem even when electronics got betterer with new technology. Multiples of the same or mixed devices were said to have unknown effects which is why places like hospitals banned their use. Tested phones may be ok but if another new one appeared and hadn’t been tested against the others or in multiples of whatever mix was possible, against the hospital kit then they didn’t know if an effect would occur. The ultimate risk is someone dies if hospital kit packs up. Hence the blanket ban on them. EMC pass rates are much betterer these days and the rules are much stricter but it should be remembered that an item which passes certain EMC tests is said to not affect another item, or be affected by another item which also passes the same EMC tests, of which there are many, depending on what it is and what the requirements are for that item. In most cases where safety is an issue they just put a ban on stuff. Like phones/laptops/cameras in petrol stations or even worse leaving the engine running whilst filling up which I’ve seen taxi driver do. We should all wear ferrite beads. :eek:
 
Hippo said:
Phones can and do effect stuff. The concerns of EMC between gadgets started many years ago and continued to be a problem even when electronics got betterer with new technology. Multiples of the same or mixed devices were said to have unknown effects which is why places like hospitals banned their use. Tested phones may be ok but if another new one appeared and hadn’t been tested against the others or in multiples of whatever mix was possible, against the hospital kit then they didn’t know if an effect would occur. The ultimate risk is someone dies if hospital kit packs up. Hence the blanket ban on them. EMC pass rates are much betterer these days and the rules are much stricter but it should be remembered that an item which passes certain EMC tests is said to not affect another item, or be affected by another item which also passes the same EMC tests, of which there are many, depending on what it is and what the requirements are for that item. In most cases where safety is an issue they just put a ban on stuff. Like phones/laptops/cameras in petrol stations or even worse leaving the engine running whilst filling up which I’ve seen taxi driver do. We should all wear ferrite beads. :eek:
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dont some stations have mobile phone masts ,an over cautious attitude to some h/s bods who havent considered real risks ,theres more chance of a spark from the engine bay ,poor starter lead battery terminal causing a problem
 
jamesmartin said:
dont some stations have mobile phone masts ,an over cautious attitude to some h/s bods who havent considered real risks ,theres more chance of a spark from the engine bay ,poor starter lead battery terminal causing a problem
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They get money for allowing masts and advertising so that sweetens the deal. A mast would be earthed and constructed/fitted properly with correct earthling etc. Something like a mobile phone would be considered more of a risk due to it being loose. The earthling and power regs for petrol stations are special and stricter if I remembers correctly.

Personally I wouldn’t want a phone in me hand when filling up. Petrol nozzles int too bad but every time I fill up a diesel for work the nozzle handle is covered in diesel. I use a free plastic glove but still end up smelling of diesel. Also talking to someone on a phone is a bit of a distraction and I may do something wrong like filling with wrong fool.

I’d agree a spark is more likely to happen I would have thought. Even static discharge of the car or another car starting up in the background giving off a spark. I just put 45L in mine so that means 45L of flammable petrol vapour must have come out the tank. Half the pumps were closed so there’s a delivery soon of many 1000’s of L of fool. Hence loads of vapour coming out the floor tanks as they fill them up.
 
I bet anyone £10 to A charity of their choice that they can't find a single instance of a mobile fone causing an explosion or fire at a filling station anywhere in western europe Aus or USA.

It's just another rule with no foundation in truth for the jobswrorths to enforce.
 
Hippo said:
They get money for allowing masts and advertising so that sweetens the deal. A mast would be earthed and constructed/fitted properly with correct earthling etc. Something like a mobile phone would be considered more of a risk due to it being loose. The earthling and power regs for petrol stations are special and stricter if I remembers correctly.

Personally I wouldn’t want a phone in me hand when filling up. Petrol nozzles int too bad but every time I fill up a diesel for work the nozzle handle is covered in diesel. I use a free plastic glove but still end up smelling of diesel. Also talking to someone on a phone is a bit of a distraction and I may do something wrong like filling with wrong fool.

I’d agree a spark is more likely to happen I would have thought. Even static discharge of the car or another car starting up in the background giving off a spark. I just put 45L in mine so that means 45L of flammable petrol vapour must have come out the tank. Half the pumps were closed so there’s a delivery soon of many 1000’s of L of fool. Hence loads of vapour coming out the floor tanks as they fill them up.
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The tanks are vented very high up though, usually higher than the canopy, and it's mostly air that is vented off.
 
Soloby Rob said:
The tanks are vented very high up though, usually higher than the canopy, and it's mostly air that is vented off.
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I would assume there's a 1 way valve in them? They must give oft some vapour unless there's something in the pipe to only allow non vapour air out only? Most I've seen are about 10 foot tall and there's normally 3 in a row close together near the filling bit for the tankers.
 
it's bs about cb aerials and mobile phone sparks- consider the amount of defective petrol ignition systems and starter solenoids switching.

Also the air fuel ratio on a forecourt is unlikely to ignite
 
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ok then wait until a nice damp day and put you burners as you call them on and then get some one to key up as you take hole of your antenna or aerial and see if you get a rf burn and while it is still keyed up just move you hand away a half inch i have had rf burns and the hurt now Mobile telephone are on Microwave bands and every body knows what Microwaves do ,don't they . that right they cook meals , all this stupid talk about people not been harmed is total rubbish but the goverments do not want you to know it, as the telephone companies bring in so much money , and yes at some petrol stations they have antennas built into the advertising , but believe me somthing will go wrong ,
and the reason for banning them in aeroplanes is because while you are trying to phone somebody if you phone does not get a signal it ups it out put power and imagine a couple of hundred doing that in a container where the signal can not get out very well, is it really worth aurgueing over lets get back to helping other Lr owners especially Freelanders owners
 
teddywood1 said:
ok then wait until a nice damp day and put you burners as you call them on and then get some one to key up as you take hole of your antenna or aerial and see if you get a rf burn and while it is still keyed up just move you hand away a half inch i have had rf burns and the hurt now Mobile telephone are on Microwave bands and every body knows what Microwaves do ,don't they . that right they cook meals , all this stupid talk about people not been harmed is total rubbish but the goverments do not want you to know it, as the telephone companies bring in so much money , and yes at some petrol stations they have antennas built into the advertising , but believe me somthing will go wrong ,
and the reason for banning them in aeroplanes is because while you are trying to phone somebody if you phone does not get a signal it ups it out put power and imagine a couple of hundred doing that in a container where the signal can not get out very well, is it really worth aurgueing over lets get back to helping other Lr owners especially Freelanders owners
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thats a different story whether using phones is harmful ,and why not interesting subject :D
 
teddywood1 said:
ok then wait until a nice damp day and put you burners as you call them on and then get some one to key up as you take hole of your antenna or aerial and see if you get a rf burn and while it is still keyed up just move you hand away a half inch i have had rf burns and the hurt now Mobile telephone are on Microwave bands and every body knows what Microwaves do ,don't they . that right they cook meals , all this stupid talk about people not been harmed is total rubbish but the goverments do not want you to know it, as the telephone companies bring in so much money , and yes at some petrol stations they have antennas built into the advertising , but believe me somthing will go wrong ,
and the reason for banning them in aeroplanes is because while you are trying to phone somebody if you phone does not get a signal it ups it out put power and imagine a couple of hundred doing that in a container where the signal can not get out very well, is it really worth aurgueing over lets get back to helping other Lr owners especially Freelanders owners
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I'm a licenced Radio operator. you're talking ****..


cheers 2E0BVE..
 
how long have you held a licence i have had one for over 30 years and by the way America has banned putting up mobile phone mast near schools and populated areas i wonder why?
 
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now i have woken you all up did anybody see the programe on dangerous jobs where a couple of men had to see to a antenna for mobile telephones in america . well they only had a few hours to do the job and that included the climbing up and down of the mast and back inside the building , well the reason they only had a couple of hours because they had to turn the power of to the antenna ,or the men would have been literary cooked from the inside outwards by the microwave signal now tell me i am talking rubbish
 
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