Injector video

If I am getting white smoke coming out the egr outlet pipe then I must be be igniting diesel, surely. But how could I be getting ignition if the engine won't start?

MGT said:

If I am getting white smoke coming out the egr outlet pipe then I must be be igniting diesel, surely. But how could I be getting ignition if the engine won't start?

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White smoke suggests it's not firing, but is vapour from the injected fuel.

How did the engine go wrong?

MGT said:

It was playing up with difficulty starting and an odd noise. SO I took the injectors out to clean them and put them back and then got no start at all. I tried another set of injectors I had not touched, but same deal. Anyway, I am about to reseat the injectors in the video, but this time as firmly as possible. So will find out if it was lack of compression soon enough I guess.

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good luck hope it goes well Ian

Thanks.

I had trouble starting it. Cranking as it is now but sometimes starting, sometimes not. When it started it was fine. That only happened a handful of times before I decided to clean the injectors.

I had previously had a smell of diesel in the cabin over some time. Sometimes there, sometimes not. Most had it when doing stop/start in town.
Together with that occasionally had what I'd call 'grumbling' noise. No idea where it was coming from Maybe what is called rough idle since it accompanied the smell of diesel on stop/start.

I put it down to leaking injector, which is why when car started to not start I decided to look at injectors.

Ian M in France said:

good luck hope it goes well Ian

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Thanks Ian.

MGT said:

Thanks.

I had trouble starting it. Cranking as it is now but sometimes starting, sometimes not. When it started it was fine. That only happened a handful of times before I decided to clean the injectors.

I had previously had a smell of diesel in the cabin over some time. Sometimes there, sometimes not. Most had it when doing stop/start in town.
Together with that occasionally had what I'd call 'grumbling' noise. No idea where it was coming from Maybe what is called rough idle since it accompanied the smell of diesel on stop/start.

I put it down to leaking injector, which is why when car started to not start I decided to look at injectors.

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It is always hard to know what to do our td4 sometimes is hard to start, it fires goes to start and dies, sometimes it will take 3 or 4 goes to get it to start then white smoke as un-burnt fuel in system, clears after 30 seconds then is okay, has done it for over a year runs well can go a month with no problems then can do it 2 or 3 times in a row, need to spend some time on it but hard to find if not there all the time, so living with it,I think the fuel is running back into tank but not sure and do not want to make it worse

Ian M in France said:

It is always hard to know what to do our td4 sometimes is hard to start, it fires goes to start and dies, sometimes it will take 3 or 4 goes to get it to start then white smoke as un-burnt fuel in system, clears after 30 seconds then is okay, has done it for over a year runs well can go a month with no problems then can do it 2 or 3 times in a row, need to spend some time on it but hard to find if not there all the time, so living with it,I think the fuel is running back into tank but not sure and do not want to make it worse

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I'm beginning to think it qualifies as an abusive relationship - that is, LandRover as the abuser. Sure, nobody makes you do it, but somehow you keep going back.

What if it is the fuel?

I missed out that I had bunged in some injector cleaner into a tank that was less than half full. Not a full bottle, but I didn't;t calculate the amount, just chucked some in. Thinking back the starting problems started after I did that. But not before the other issues of smell of diesel in the cabin and grumbling/rough idle.

I changed the fuel filter yesterday. I didn't empty the sedimenter because the flange on the cap twisted off. Could I be getting something into the fuel from the sedimenter after it was released by the injector cleaner maybe?

Injector cleaners are just kerosene will a tiny amount of detergent added, so won't cause issues.

The injectors are spraying, so that eliminates anything fuel related.

Have you tried easy-start?

It might be worth a go, even if it eliminates the turbo or CAT being blocked.

Nodge68 said:

Injector cleaners are just kerosene will a tiny amount of detergent added, so won't cause issues.

The injectors are spraying, so that eliminates anything fuel related.

Have you tried easy-start?

It might be worth a go, even if it eliminates the turbo or CAT being blocked.

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No, but I will do that, thanks.

My notion re the use of injector cleaner was based on reading about it dislodging material in the tank if put in when the fuel level is low. If that material were to go into the sedimenter I thought maybe the accumulation at the base of the sedimenter would push the water up so that it mixed with the diesel and caused issues with ignition. The injectors would still spray diesel that had emulsified water in it. In any case, it's an easy test if I can just get the cap off.

Started.

I didn't think it would but it began catching and finally fired.

What I did this morning - clean the sedimenter (although did not seem particularly clogged)

double up on the injector washers, so now two at the base of each injector.

put the air intake manifold back on and hook up all the hoses and sensors

Have not left it running but am going to whip battery off to charge it up.

Why though?

Possibilities: replacement injector washers were too thin to form a complete seal.

For some to me unknown reason it was never going to start with the manifold off.

I seem to remember reading about the long bolt on the left hand side of the intake manifold needing to be in there otherwise compression lost. However, the guts of the engine are a black box to me so that may be complete bollocks.

It Isn't running very smoothly at present but that may sort itself out with some hefty revving. Going to get a couple of canisters of diesel to top tank up, more for superstition than anything else.

Would never have got this far without your help, chaps, so I am eternally grateful.

That's a result

Maybe some effort yet - but running is a darned sight better that dead!

GrumpyGel said:

That's a result

Maybe some effort yet - but running is a darned sight better that dead!

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Yes. That's how I feel. But I am older now, and wiser, so I am going to take a break and eat my sandwiches and drink my tea, then go back to it in a measured fashion.

You didn't happen to get the blocks that hold the injectors in upside down by any chance ? There was a thread when someone did exactly that by accident, and therefore no seal or compression !!

pwood999 said:

You didn't happen to get the blocks that hold the injectors in upside down by any chance ? There was a thread when someone did exactly that by accident, and therefore no seal or compression !!

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No. When I first put them back I did, but I figured something wasn't;t right so checked here and changed them over before starting. No, these went back in with collars right way round and tamped in pretty firmly and then nuts torqued right down. I don't know whether it is the double washer that worked or something else, but since people who helped me out were pretty sure it was compression loss it seems most likely that it was the double washer that did it. mind, as I said, it's not running smoothly at the moment, so I am not feeling 100 percent confident it is ok.

It will start and idle just fine with the inlet manifold off.
However it won't run if the compression is leaking past the copper washers.

Glad it's finally running again.

Nodge68 said:

It will start and idle just fine with the inlet manifold off.
However it won't run if the compression is leaking past the copper washers.

Glad it's finally running again.

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Wouldn't be without your helps, so thanks again. Just started it again and ticking over ok, albeit in a lot of white smoke. Got a bit of vibration at 1500 rpm, which rings a bell from somewhere, but I can look at old threads to nail that down. I haven't bolted down the top part of the air inlet, so it could even be that.

Now have black smoke coming from exhaust. It seems to be running fine and accelerating ok, but the initial white smoke which I was expecting has been replaced by black. I noticed also there was some white smoke coming from under the bonnet when I took it for a run round the block. I was expecting some smoke but this looks like there is something amiss.
I did notice after I stopped a splash of oil on the brake reservoir and some spatter marks on the insulation around it. As if it had spurted up form the back of the engine.

Putting that together with black smoke, am I looking at a failed turbo, and if so what is the easiest way to check for that? When I ran it this morning there was no loss of acceleration and no whine.

Isn't there some innocuous bolt on the TD4, holds the engine cover or summat, that if its not in, and not in tight, opens a corridor for the engine oil to spew forth around the engine?

GrumpyGel said:

Isn't there some innocuous bolt on the TD4, holds the engine cover or summat, that if its not in, and not in tight, opens a corridor for the engine oil to spew forth around the engine?

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Yes, I read about that, and I did have an 'aha' moment when I saw it was missing - I think its the one for the small cover that covers the injectors and wiring loom, and I hadn't bothered to put it back on. So that might be simple.

however, there's diesel pooling around the injector tray again - quite a bit of it. I'm wondering if that could be from the leak back hoses. I haven't really considered the leak back hoses at all. I've had them on and off the top of the injectors so many times maybe I have compromised a seal. I really need to understand what their function is. If they take excess fuel back to the tank, why is there excess fuel in the first place? I've ignored it because it seemed unimportant.

Car is still starting though. If this carries on for much longer I may treat myself to an expletive.