hi if its any use to you i have two spare blocks for sale.
Yes another post about a p38 BMW diesel Overheating
- Thread starter Geekfreek
- Start date
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Yes, yet another post about a p38 BMW engined diesel overheating!!
Ive just spent some time looking through these forums looking at, and for posts about this problem hoping to find a cure!!
Well, Ive drawn 2 conclusions, there are a lot of people viewing these posts and as yet no definitive cure, we all seem to have encountered the same or similar symptoms.
So, is this just a bad engine?, or is it just a bad application of the engine?
It seems there are known faults with this engine, one being the plastic impeller water pump problem, (evident in BMW 325 and 525 M51 engined cars and also the Vauxhall Omega 2.5) but what other problems keep cropping up?, what about the air con fans, the dury seems out on weather these have a direct effect on the overheating problem or not, others have air locks as a potential culprits, cracked heads, blown head gaskets, or like me you have fixed all the above and still have a bloody kettle for a car!!!
So this is an invitation to all you p38 2.5 diesel owners to voice you cures to the overheating problem, and it is a problem, a long running problem at that!
Hi,
My wife's P38 was on/off the road was for 6 months with boiling problems. Having checked rad, changed thermostat, changed all hoses and rad cap, checked water pump, it still boiled. In the end I took the head off and found nothing that could put my finger on to say it was the cause. The only thing I found was that there was a slight mark between No 3 cylinder and a water port and that the head bolts were very easy to undo. Although the manual says you can not skim the head, I phone some heads places and they said you can take up tp 10 thou off, so i did. Put it all back with new head bolts and thickest head gasket, she now done about 3000 miles ok.
Great cars when they work but nightmares when they don't. Hope this might help someone.
Loxley
SpudH
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Hey Danny,
Thanks for the offer, once again the forum looks after the lost souls!! The block had arrived before I'd checked here again. Its supposed to be rebuilt by friday so I'll let ye all know how it goes and if the depression has finally lifted and my love affair with P38's has resumed. In the meantime heres a photo of my other source of 'help' working on my soft dash. We start them young over here
Thanks for the offer, once again the forum looks after the lost souls!! The block had arrived before I'd checked here again. Its supposed to be rebuilt by friday so I'll let ye all know how it goes and if the depression has finally lifted and my love affair with P38's has resumed. In the meantime heres a photo of my other source of 'help' working on my soft dash. We start them young over here
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Hey Danny,
Thanks for the offer, once again the forum looks after the lost souls!! The block had arrived before I'd checked here again. Its supposed to be rebuilt by friday so I'll let ye all know how it goes and if the depression has finally lifted and my love affair with P38's has resumed. In the meantime heres a photo of my other source of 'help' working on my soft dash. We start them young over here
Let us know how it goes Spud...
My story continues.. helicoiled the damaged thread, nice job, proceeded to put the head back on then found that the last bolt, the one right at the back, the one that is a right pain just to do up had stripped as well, unable to helicoil it in place so Ive now taken the engine out, Im thinking either repair my block by helicoiling all of the head bolts (and change the bottom timing chain as it looks very stretched, tensioner is fully extended) or taking the engine from the Omega as swapping the whole thing (but Ive just bought a new head).
Dont know what to do now .my engine has 95k on it the Omega has 116k and I dont know the history of either, should I rebuild mine, and top it off with the new head, or risk doing all this again a few months down the road by using the Omega engine, and Im running out of money fast!! I want to keep the car, it looks soooo nice!! Decisions decisions!!!
P.S. anyone got a low mileage good bottom end going cheap!!!
hi geek freek i have two bottom ends one is complete the other has been stripped i brought them in case my crank snapped (apparantly quite common) dont know the the milage, bores look fine you can still see cross hatching with no lip at the top of the bore a quick hone and a set of rings and you will be well away to a complete reconditioned engine.asking £50 fo bare block. I also have front and rear diff from a rr p38 that had done 17 k .
mine is now back on the road after £1000 in patrs a to many late nights but is running fine now ,at the same time i fitted poly bush kit and sorted all the oil leaks out .
im bored now ill have to wait till next week till something else goes wrong.
mine is now back on the road after £1000 in patrs a to many late nights but is running fine now ,at the same time i fitted poly bush kit and sorted all the oil leaks out .
im bored now ill have to wait till next week till something else goes wrong.
hi geek freek i have two bottom ends one is complete the other has been stripped i brought them in case my crank snapped (apparantly quite common) dont know the the milage, bores look fine you can still see cross hatching with no lip at the top of the bore a quick hone and a set of rings and you will be well away to a complete reconditioned engine.asking £50 fo bare block. I also have front and rear diff from a rr p38 that had done 17 k .
mine is now back on the road after £1000 in patrs a to many late nights but is running fine now ,at the same time i fitted poly bush kit and sorted all the oil leaks out .
im bored now ill have to wait till next week till something else goes wrong.
Just PM'd you
N Gauge Bob
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I have not had my Rangey for long. It has clocked 160k miles. I tow a large double wheeled trailer with about 1.5 tons on board. I recently did a very long journey, got stuck in a two hour tailback, and basically had a nightmare drive. The Rangey behaved perfectly and the temperature gauge hardly ventured above the blue zone. Limited experience I know but mine seems to run OK.
Cheers
Bob
SpudH
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Hey Geekfreek, danny,
I finally picked up my Rangie from the specialist yesterday morning, its going beautifully. The love affair is back on! He seems to have done a great job, its running real smooth now, far better than before. I have to run it in for 500 (that wont take long because I'm in it constantly!) miles or so but all is going lovely at the moment. He completely rebuilt the engine from crank up, so I've the original crank and case but everything from there up is new, cost a fortune but hopefully I've a lot of miles ahead of me without watching that needle again! Best of luck with your one geekfreek, keep us posted.
I finally picked up my Rangie from the specialist yesterday morning, its going beautifully. The love affair is back on! He seems to have done a great job, its running real smooth now, far better than before. I have to run it in for 500 (that wont take long because I'm in it constantly!) miles or so but all is going lovely at the moment. He completely rebuilt the engine from crank up, so I've the original crank and case but everything from there up is new, cost a fortune but hopefully I've a lot of miles ahead of me without watching that needle again! Best of luck with your one geekfreek, keep us posted.
Hi Danny,
Nice one! sounds like your engine problems are finaly over, lets hope you get some trouble free motoring at last!
What exactly did they do to your engine? as they used your crank and block (is this the helicoiled one?) did they have your crank reground? new shells? new big end shells? new rings and the bores honed? and a new or recond head? new timing chains and tensioners? did they change the injection pump? have they given you any guarantees? does it hot start any better?
If anyone tells you that a Vauxhall Omega is a straight swap with a p38 they are telling fibs!! I have both engines side by side on my garage floor at the moment and there are a number of major differences, the sumps are totally different and so are the oil pickups, the turbo's are the same, but different, (the Vaux compressor exit's at the bottom) the front crank rib pully's are diferent diameters, the A/C compressors are totally different, though the mountings are the same, same goes for the PAS pump.
Can't do much more until I get some new gaskets (sump ect) so work has stopped until after xmas and the New Year. I'll report back later.....
P.S. Anyone want a nice '97 Omega (minus engine) £50, before I take to meet it's maker
SpudH
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Hi Geekfreek,
The helicoiled block is in the bin. I've a new block, pistons, timing chain, tensioner, head, water pump and radiator. He did the shells but I don't think he did anything else with the big end. He didn't touch the diesel pump but my one isn't too bad for hot starting yet anyway.
BTW I read on another thread about running on veg oil that if you add a bottle of veg oil to every fill of diesel it goes a long way to sorting out hot starting due to the increase in viscosity. I plan to get the full story on that when it becomes a problem.
I'll post a few photos of my P38 before the Christmas is over and it gets covered in muck when I go back to work. Just to keep you motivated
The helicoiled block is in the bin. I've a new block, pistons, timing chain, tensioner, head, water pump and radiator. He did the shells but I don't think he did anything else with the big end. He didn't touch the diesel pump but my one isn't too bad for hot starting yet anyway.
BTW I read on another thread about running on veg oil that if you add a bottle of veg oil to every fill of diesel it goes a long way to sorting out hot starting due to the increase in viscosity. I plan to get the full story on that when it becomes a problem.
I'll post a few photos of my P38 before the Christmas is over and it gets covered in muck when I go back to work. Just to keep you motivated
The gaskets arrived (sump, oil pickup) and while I was at it I replaced both front and rear crank seals. Flywheel bolts are different on the manual (Vauxhall) so the original ones were re-used, says in the manual new should be fitted but they are only Loctited, so clean the threads and re-apply Loctite.
Engine went in very easily, only other things to note are the 4th injector has a different connector, so either swap the injector with the RR one or (as I did) carefully remove the locating bump and plug it in, I removed the vacuum pump and replaced it with the RR blanking plate, though the cam bolts are different (the RR one has a hollow centre) the pin on the back of the plate needs to be nipped off. I also swapped over the cam box cover, this doesn't need to be swapped over but doing it makes the engine look exactly the same as the RR lump.
The car now starts and drives as it should, and no longer has the hot start problem it had with the RR engine, the temp gauge sits at a little below 12 o'clock, so thats it, all in all the Vauxhall Omega engine is a good swap.
Car will be going up on Fleabay in a month or so, if someone has a GOOD 300 tdi Vogue SE, manual or auto and it interested in a swap for this 2.5 dse Vogue, Oxford blue, sandstone leather, 18" alloys, front and rear (roof mounted) DVD screens, both keys, showing 95k miles, 2000 light upgrade, front and rear light guards, bodywork in great condition, let me know.
Engine went in very easily, only other things to note are the 4th injector has a different connector, so either swap the injector with the RR one or (as I did) carefully remove the locating bump and plug it in, I removed the vacuum pump and replaced it with the RR blanking plate, though the cam bolts are different (the RR one has a hollow centre) the pin on the back of the plate needs to be nipped off. I also swapped over the cam box cover, this doesn't need to be swapped over but doing it makes the engine look exactly the same as the RR lump.
The car now starts and drives as it should, and no longer has the hot start problem it had with the RR engine, the temp gauge sits at a little below 12 o'clock, so thats it, all in all the Vauxhall Omega engine is a good swap.
Car will be going up on Fleabay in a month or so, if someone has a GOOD 300 tdi Vogue SE, manual or auto and it interested in a swap for this 2.5 dse Vogue, Oxford blue, sandstone leather, 18" alloys, front and rear (roof mounted) DVD screens, both keys, showing 95k miles, 2000 light upgrade, front and rear light guards, bodywork in great condition, let me know.
A post for anyone who has found this post as they have overheating problems with their p38 2.5 diesel..........been running the Omega engine now for 2 months without any problems so far (touch wood) so, I would say it's a good swap and a cheaper option than re-building your engine if you are looking at replacing the cylinder head (£600+) .
If you can get a low mileage Omega and test the engine before you remove it, you will only need a new sump gasket, and oil pickup gasket, all the other bits you can get from the rangie lump and just swap them over.
Don't be put off as it looks complicated with all the pipes and wires, but it's quite an easy engine to remove (I did an auto, don't know how the manual would go) infact getting the engine out of the Omega is the hardest bit!.
2 common myths, the FIP (Fuel injection pump) is coded to the ECU so you have to use the ECU from the donor, reality is rubbish, the FIP will work fine with your current ECU and is not pared.
The Omega engine is less powerful than the Rangie, to be honest they are both flat!! I personally don't think the Omega is any less powerful than the RR, and if it is you probably won't notice!!
I only wish I had done the Omega swap first before throwing a lot of cash at an engine (just 90k genuine miles) I ended up throwing in a skip (metal recycling skip though!) but you keep thinking Ill just replace this bit and that should do it, in reality there is always just another bit!
Hope this helps someone in the position I was in.
If you can get a low mileage Omega and test the engine before you remove it, you will only need a new sump gasket, and oil pickup gasket, all the other bits you can get from the rangie lump and just swap them over.
Don't be put off as it looks complicated with all the pipes and wires, but it's quite an easy engine to remove (I did an auto, don't know how the manual would go) infact getting the engine out of the Omega is the hardest bit!.
2 common myths, the FIP (Fuel injection pump) is coded to the ECU so you have to use the ECU from the donor, reality is rubbish, the FIP will work fine with your current ECU and is not pared.
The Omega engine is less powerful than the Rangie, to be honest they are both flat!! I personally don't think the Omega is any less powerful than the RR, and if it is you probably won't notice!!
I only wish I had done the Omega swap first before throwing a lot of cash at an engine (just 90k genuine miles) I ended up throwing in a skip (metal recycling skip though!) but you keep thinking Ill just replace this bit and that should do it, in reality there is always just another bit!
Hope this helps someone in the position I was in.
jakeschorah
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i have a p38 bmw kettle that a bought with a burst rad and scarred bonnet felt, put a used (i know, now) rad in and it was fine for a couple of months. started getting hot and geisering out of header tank and a local LR 'specialist' confirmed it was the head gasket. £600 later with the head done and passed the pressure test, it was no better, so 'specialist' took head off again and all looks good. having read all on this forum, i asked him has he checked the rad, "you fitted a new one " he said," no, i said i replaced the burst one". i may have paid 600 quid for a job that was misdiagnosed and he is volume testing the rad tomorrow. i will go in morning with a torch and dentist mirror to check baffles. hope it is the rad as this bloke wants me to buy a new head and if that doesnt work, a block too! the car is a 1996 and not worth what ive spent on it so far.ive replaced 4 air springs, compressor, oil cooler and pipes, rad, had head done, all brakes,and i need to fix leaking auto sump. i have it kitted out for work, its not a show car and always has weight in it. it is not getting a new head or block. any ideas?
NZp38
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I put a temperature gauge in the out hose on the radiator and it was a 120 but the dash gauge said its 90 in the engine.because people always want something more. either way, the amount of power the engine has, or doesn't, doesn't really come into this. Were talking about why its overheating
Snap! My felt stuff on the underside of the bonnet bears the scar of my split rad as well.
Anyway, like you Geekfreek I also bought a digital infrared thermometer thingymabob. Its good and can help with diagnosis. Get measuring the two hoses too and from the rad, a sure sign of a problem with the rad is when you see two readings almost identical. I was in the high nineties on both sides with about a 1*C difference between the two if I remember correctly.
When I put the new rad in I never bothered testing the temps out again so I cant tell you what they 'should' be but I knew almost instantly my problem was fixed as when I started driving the needle didnt start sprinting its way to the 12 o'clock position.
Instead it gradually climbed up to just a bit under 12 (it was a very warm day when I got mine sorted) and then went back down as load was reduced on the engine, basically, it was back to how it used to be, the temp needle fluctuates with driving. For example, it was snowing here the other night, 0*C ambient temp, needle moved up to just into the white zone and stayed there all the time until I came to a hill,it then climbed a bit heading towards 12 and then dropped back off as I leveled out.
One sure way I could also tell I was DEF overheating (and it wasnt a temp sensor fault) was, with the A/C on and it being a warm day, sitting at traffic lights, needle started to creep up past 12. I immediately put the blower on HI both sides with full fan speed which slowed it down climbing a bit BUT as I pulled away I could really hear the viscous fan roaring, trying to pull as much air through as possible. Have you heard the fan really spinning up to try and keep it cool??
From what you have said, I think you are going to find you have a nasty cheap rad from Britpart, probably one of the same batch that I had. I would go ahead and order yourself a new genuine rad. If you have an auto DSE (sorry I dont know the exact correct part number for a manual DSE) the part number is PCC108470 and from my invoice its £220 + VAT. You may have to wait a few days to get one though, I know they didnt have any in stock when I wanted one, not even at the factory and they had to put it on back order. Meanwhile the LR dealer said did I want to try an aftermarket rad such as a Britpart one, I said NO!
If they cant get you one that easily (i.e: next day) then PM me and I will help you out a bit there as I ended up having to go a slightly non-conventional route to make sure I got one ASAP.
If you want to stick with your current rad for the moment and test it then this is the official procedure taken from the Tech Bulletin 26/02/96EN...
As I said I wouldnt even bother though, you have described practically all the symptoms I had. Get that cheap nasty part out of there and a genuine one in and then send the cheap rad back to where you got it from explaining the problem.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out, will be interesting to see!!
-Wills
I have two dse with over heating problems.
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Best start a new thread as this one is ten years old and most of the people haven't been heard from in ages.
Have you tested the viscous fan? Water pump?
Datatek
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Usual problem is the viscous fan, do the newspaper test or do my aircon fans mod.
NZp38
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I have two dse.
Both over heating, just got a new head for one of them.
One had the head gasket done 6000 km ago.
And the pump fan hoses radiator were all new.
Datatek
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Have you checked that the baffle is fitted in the radiator header? Some new viscous fans are NBG.
Last edited:
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+1.
RangeRoller dt
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+1 baffle.
Some cheap rads don’t have them from new.
Marble test. - if you can roll a marble along the top inside the rad there is no bafffle to stop it and rad is useles for 2.5 P38. Coolant needs to be forced down and around.
Some cheap rads don’t have them from new.
Marble test. - if you can roll a marble along the top inside the rad there is no bafffle to stop it and rad is useles for 2.5 P38. Coolant needs to be forced down and around.
