Yes another post about a p38 BMW diesel Overheating

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aadanny said:
hi ive got a p38 rr diesel and im having overheating problems ,just taken head off to find 3 cracks one between valves and 2 more from around pre combustion chambers.I need to source a new head does any one know a good supplier.Best price ive had yet is £950 for head ,head set and stretch bolts.Someone told me to try vauxhall dealer as omegas have bmw lump in them and are sometimes cheaper for parts.
My rr has been chipped by jeremy fern and has upgraded intercooler and is pumping out 197 bhp this has been fitted for about 7 years and this is the first time ive had a problem with overheating.
I aslo own a bmw 325 tds 1996 which has same engine this has done a wopping 275000 miles on same engine never uses any oil or water and still goes like a train and has never had a problem with overheating ,strange eh:confused:
Click to expand...

The cracks you have in your head might not be as bad as you think, it might be worth you taking it to a good engineering firm and getting them to pressure test it first, should only cost you about £50 - £60 for the pressure test.

You can get the bolts and top end gasket set (minus head gasket) from here SAP car / motor spare parts. Online orders & worldwide delivery they are quick and the quality doesn't seem to bad, the genuine head gasket cost me £75 from a LR main agent.

IIRC I was offered a re-manufactured complete cyl head including valves, springs, and camshaft for £650, this included a 12 months parts and labour garentee, let me know if you are interested and I'll dig out the email.

Have a read of this complete thread as you might have suffered from the water pump or radiator problem as some of us have!

Please let us know how you get on!
 
Here's a thought...

What about using the radiator from a 4.0 V8 petrol in the diesel?

The bottom hose would need modification, but the radiator would then be more conventional, i.e. heated water enters via the top flows down through the core, cooler water exit's via the bottom hose, this engine uses this (conventional) method in the BMW and Vauxhall cars so why not in the RR?

You might say 'why not buy the original LR radiator' well, it's been proved that this car is common to rad failure, with 'iffy' baffles. I don't want to have to keep one eye on the temp gauge every time I drive, and fear hot summer days!!

The main reason by far that any diesel does a head or gasket is because it's been overheated, fix the overheating problem and you shouldn't suffer any head problems.

Anyone know if the V8 radiators will fit into the diesel? size wise I mean?
All that would be needed then would be a short length of tubing to connect the bottom port to the bottom hose.
 
hi thanks for reply that seems a good price for head if you could let me know who it was from please.Had a look at radiator and it seems ok have fitted w pump ,viscous fan and thermostat.I also had new switch fitted on ac pipes as i thought electric fans should be comming on,when my mate regassed it we incresed pressure in ac system to 250 and fans cut in around 245 - 250.
I did find that someone had unscrewed coolant temp sensor and blocked hole off ,I think this was a bodge to cure hot starting problem,so bcem would not have know car was overheating and turned cooling fans on.
I was thinking of fitting a warning buzzer to cooling system to warn if getting to hot have seen these at demon tweeks,im going to end up crashing as im constantly watching temp gauge even more so after ive spent £1500.
 
aadanny said:
hi thanks for reply that seems a good price for head if you could let me know who it was from please.Had a look at radiator and it seems ok have fitted w pump ,viscous fan and thermostat.I also had new switch fitted on ac pipes as i thought electric fans should be comming on,when my mate regassed it we incresed pressure in ac system to 250 and fans cut in around 245 - 250.
I did find that someone had unscrewed coolant temp sensor and blocked hole off ,I think this was a bodge to cure hot starting problem,so bcem would not have know car was overheating and turned cooling fans on.
I was thinking of fitting a warning buzzer to cooling system to warn if getting to hot have seen these at demon tweeks,im going to end up crashing as im constantly watching temp gauge even more so after ive spent £1500.
Click to expand...

Hi ,

Here is the content of the email, this was from July this year so may be out of date, wouldn't hirt to contact them though..

Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding a cylinder head for a Range

Rover 2.5TD (BMW 6 cyl) .
We can supply a fully remanufactured, service exchange cylinder head
complete
with valves, springs and camshaft for £545.00 + vat.
The cylinder head comes with a 12 month / unlimited mileage warranty
for
both parts & labour. If the head suffered a problem during the warranty

period, then it would be replaced and the relevant labour charges paid
at
any garage in the UK.
Next day delivery anywhere in the UK is £25.00 + Vat. This charge
includes
the subsequent collection of the old unit.
No surcharge is raised at the time of supply.
I very much hope this quote is of interest. Looking forward to hearing
from
you.
Kind regards
Harvey Smith
Prestige Engine Products Limited
Broughton Green
Droitwich
Worcs.
WR9 7EF
01905 391007 'Phone
Company registration number:-04897177
Registered in England
Registered office:
39-40, Calthorpe Road
Edgbaston
Birmingham
B15 1TS
 
I tow a large trailer on a regular basis with my DSE ...I carry massive bags of cement and scaffold ...Just stick it in low range and in a low gear ...Its just basic sense.
 
Geekfreek said:
Hi ,

Here is the content of the email, this was from July this year so may be out of date, wouldn't hirt to contact them though..

Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding a cylinder head for a Range

Rover 2.5TD (BMW 6 cyl) .
We can supply a fully remanufactured, service exchange cylinder head
complete
with valves, springs and camshaft for £545.00 + vat.
The cylinder head comes with a 12 month / unlimited mileage warranty
for
both parts & labour. If the head suffered a problem during the warranty

period, then it would be replaced and the relevant labour charges paid
at
any garage in the UK.
Next day delivery anywhere in the UK is £25.00 + Vat. This charge
includes
the subsequent collection of the old unit.
No surcharge is raised at the time of supply.
I very much hope this quote is of interest. Looking forward to hearing
from
you.
Kind regards
Harvey Smith
Prestige Engine Products Limited
Broughton Green
Droitwich
Worcs.
WR9 7EF
01905 391007 'Phone
Company registration number:-04897177
Registered in England
Registered office:
39-40, Calthorpe Road
Edgbaston
Birmingham
B15 1TS
Click to expand...
cheers for that,have spoken to a few companies today and if its a cracked head they wont accept it for surchage ,had to bite bullet and buy new £575 for bare head ,fitting it next week.
 
aadanny said:
cheers for that,have spoken to a few companies today and if its a cracked head they wont accept it for surchage ,had to bite bullet and buy new £575 for bare head ,fitting it next week.
Click to expand...

Sniff tested mine today, head (or block) fecked!!
everyone says that the blocks on these are fairly indestructible so I'm in the same situation I think :(

Who quoted you £575??
 
If you have read through this thread you will have seen the debate on pattern vs genuine, well I was beginning to think that my new pattern radiator was the cause of my overheating problems as the baffle was allowing water to pass from one port straight to the other without passing through the core, not so.

I started the engine up and allowed it to warm up at idle until the stat opened, bled any air out of the system by topping up the header when it dropped a bit,
all seemed well, drove the car a quarter of a mile and the temp gauge went into the red, the top hose (from the head to the rad) was 93 deg, the top rail of the rad was scorching hot, and the bottom hose (from the rad to the pump inlet) was in the high 80's, the rest of the rad, the core and bottom rail were stone cold! this is where I thought that the rad was my problem, the fan was idling as there was no heat from the rad to make it lock up, so no fan fault.

I decided to conduct the experiment again (once the engine had cooled) but this time without the cap on the header tank (as the pressure was so great last time) this time the engine ran much cooler, the rad warmed up through the core and bottom rail and it was virtually impossible to make it overheat, why is this? it's because the head has a hairline crack allowing pressure into the cooling system (I know this because I've now run sniff tests) and when the system is over pressurised the coolant doesn't flow properly.

So, if you have similar symptoms and suspect your radiator, water pump, thermostat, ect do a sniff test first, you could save yourself a lot of time and money.

BTW, Prestige DO take your old head in without any surcharge even if it's warped, cracked or whatever, price has risen slightly to £575 though since their last quote.

Hope this is of help to some of you cursed with the overheating diesel syndrome!!
 
Just one thing to add to that geekfreek.
While it might look that it is circulating better while you are idling thats not entirely true. When the pressure comes on the engine, the gas escaping from the crack or gasket is going to force water away from the area meaning that you have no coolant local to where the problem is. I believe this is what causes the over pressurising. As the coolant is forced away from the crack that area becomes v.hot, turning to steam any water it touches creating futher pressure local to that area, creating a bigger hot spot, boiling more water to steam and so on. This is what causes the geyser of water when you start to loosen the cap. If you check the temp of the water when the needle first starts to move it wont be boiling water in the expansion tank like you get with low coolant but it will still geyser up if you loosen the cap. It only boils after it has lost enough water out through th overflow in the cap.
I got mine home by loosening the cap off and stopping every couple of miles to top it back up but who knows what additional damage I have caused? I'm still waiting for parts so my local specialist hasn't taken the head off yet.
 
hi ,just an update on my p38 bmw boiler,i have fitted new head ,genuine gasket ,genuine w pump ,gen thermostat,gen rad so hopefully all areas covered however when i phoned lr to order thermostat they asked me if it was the modified one where the thermostat is in the radiator hose.These are fitted on 98 onwards.Does anyone know why this is????
When looking at engine the other day i got to thinking about the position of the thermostat housing being right behind viscous fan and wondered if fan could be cooling down coolant around stat causing it to stay closed for longer while coolant at rear of head is hotter. I wonder if this is why lr moved thermostat from here to hose????
or am i going slowly going mad thinking about ways my lr could overheat:eek:
 
modelman said:
Well here's a slightly different slant on things.
My '96 DSE started 'howling' from the fan ALL the time, & even on long runs, the engine never got up to 'normal' temp.
The fan was stiff whilst stationary, indicating that the viscous drive was shot, since my car NEVER ran hot,

Hiya modelman

i have exactly the same issue

The vehicle never really warmed up - initially i thought thermostat went to replace it then saw what was involved - at its cold at the moment i muffled the radiator between the behind the intercooler in front of the rad with a mask allowing a 15inch circle in the middle - and sure enough the engine warmed up to 12 o clock in no time - the viscus is tight & runs from cold regardless of its need to cool!
later this week i intend to order a Kenlowe and then do the whole lot when i get time over Xmas (new theromstadt & fan)

mine is chiped with imporoved intercooler - my aim it to hit the 200bhp mark
the intercooler & re-mapping bring it to about 190-195 - I have A KN fitted & the kenlowe should help with a few extra bhp (efficiency)
Click to expand...
 
Hi Abe, I fitted the latest 18" Kenlow unit as well as the overide AND 2 speed switches. Did a 400 mile trip yesterday & the fan never cut in once, it only ever comes on for a min or so in the summer when I'm towing up & over the moors!
Mine is only chipped to around 165 BHP, + a K & N air filter, still much better than standard,
 
aadanny said:
hi ,just an update on my p38 bmw boiler,i have fitted new head ,genuine gasket ,genuine w pump ,gen thermostat,gen rad so hopefully all areas covered however when i phoned lr to order thermostat they asked me if it was the modified one where the thermostat is in the radiator hose.These are fitted on 98 onwards.Does anyone know why this is????
When looking at engine the other day i got to thinking about the position of the thermostat housing being right behind viscous fan and wondered if fan could be cooling down coolant around stat causing it to stay closed for longer while coolant at rear of head is hotter. I wonder if this is why lr moved thermostat from here to hose????
or am i going slowly going mad thinking about ways my lr could overheat:eek:
Click to expand...

I hope all goes well for you, (I'm in the same place myself now, only slightly worse as the thread in head bolt hole number 2 is stripped and needs helicoiling, or a new block!!) you going to keep the car when you get it finished? (finished, what am I talking about, they are never finished!).

I don't reckon the stat will be affected by the fan, the wax chamber that opens the stat is at the back end, almost inside the head, in my opinion to far away from the very slightly cooler front end, and also remember this is the cool end, the other hose takes the hotter water from the engine to the rad, so this is carrying cooled water back to the engine.

This layout is exactly the same as the Vauxhall Omega, stat is in the same place. The V8 petrol has the stat inline with the hose (I think) did the parts man get it confused with this?
 
Hi geekfreek,
I had the same thing with my one. My mechanic rang me on Thursday to tell me that it had its head done before. It had stripped a couple of head bolts which had been helicoiled incorrectly. They had to remove those and redo the helicoiling. Its supposed to be ready Tuesday. At this stage I've replaced the head, rad, pump, stat, viscous coupling and now has a dodgy block. My love for RRs is being well tested!
 
modelman said:
Hi Abe, I fitted the latest 18" Kenlow unit as well as the overide AND 2 speed switches. Did a 400 mile trip yesterday & the fan never cut in once, it only ever comes on for a min or so in the summer when I'm towing up & over the moors!
Mine is only chipped to around 165 BHP, + a K & N air filter, still much better than standard,
Click to expand...

I this a kit? where can you get it from and how easy is it to fit?

My temp gauge shows it it running at around 10-11o'clock even on a long run, never seen it 12 o'clock- is this where it should be?
 
Canyon said:
I this a kit? where can you get it from and how easy is it to fit?

My temp gauge shows it it running at around 10-11o'clock even on a long run, never seen it 12 o'clock- is this where it should be?
Click to expand...

I suppose you could call it a 'kit', I rang Kenlow & talked to a guy there & bought everything as required.

Its relatively easy to fit, but I did find fitting the fan assembly 'interesting' as its held against the inside of the radiator via 4 x ratchet-type ties that go through the rad, & since there are FIVE rads all close to each other, getting the retaining clips on was a bit fiddly!!
I fitted the 2 switches into the wood trim by the ign key.:)

Your temp gauge seems similar to mine, & 99.9% of the time, the fan NEVER cuts in, so no BHP fan-loss whatever.
 
Hey Geekfreek,
Just an update on my tale of woe, my specialist came back to me today, the helicoils didn't hold. She boiled up again as soon as they took it for a spin. I've just given him go ahead to order a new block!! I'm down over £3k so far. I think the wife and child will have to go without a Christmas present this year. Why didn't I buy that flippin G-wagen when I had a chance! Ah well, I suppose when I finally get it back it'll have a new engine and then I should only have to worry about the EAS and Hevac going wrong.
Be warned other overheaters, your love for RRs could bring you down my path!!
 
SpudH said:
Hey Geekfreek,
Just an update on my tale of woe, my specialist came back to me today, the helicoils didn't hold. She boiled up again as soon as they took it for a spin. I've just given him go ahead to order a new block!! I'm down over £3k so far. I think the wife and child will have to go without a Christmas present this year. Why didn't I buy that flippin G-wagen when I had a chance! Ah well, I suppose when I finally get it back it'll have a new engine and then I should only have to worry about the EAS and Hevac going wrong.
Be warned other overheaters, your love for RRs could bring you down my path!!
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear your troubles Spud, I'm going the same way!!
If you can, buy a cheap Vauxhall Omega 2.5 td, it's the same engine, I've just bought a complete car (and drove it home 60 miles to test the engine) MOT failure, cracked screen, worn front steering joints, 116k miles, 1997 on an R for £150 !! bargain!!

If the helicoil doesn't hold on mine I'm just going to swap the whole thing over, reckon it will give me summat to do over the xmas hols:D

Bit much having to keep a spare car on hand for donor parts though, In my opinion the P38 DSE is a lemon, it will be up forsale in the new year and I'm back to the RRC as I just don't think I could trust it for long!!
 
Hey Geekfreek,

Couldn't agree more with you. I've said in other posts that I reckon the best day to day used RR is a 300tdi Classic soft dash. Its just so hard to track down one speced up to vogue or SE level. I have a fully loaded 95 soft dash but its the 3.9 V8 and the tanker of fuel I have to pull behind it really blunts the performance;)
I'm going to tough out the P38 and see how it goes. It'll effectively have a new engine now and the rest of it is really fresh (Its only done 70k) and I'm pretty much prepared (thanks to all the great guys on this and other forums) for the EAS trouble in the future.
I do like your idea of buying an old omega though. If I can just hide it behind my other RRC's in the back yard:rolleyes:
 
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