x Reg Freelander 1.8 Urgent Advice Please

riggaz said:

I think what Slob means is that the biting point is the biting point whether high or low, providing the clutch isn't worn out it will bite. Where you might be talking about how it has improved the operation and feel of the clutch.

Regards

Riggaz

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thats about it.... but if yer in endless traffic, i take it you mean stop go driving, in which case i would have thought a lighter clutch would have bin the order of the day rather than a heavier one

riggaz said:

I think what Slob means is that the biting point is the biting point whether high or low, providing the clutch isn't worn out it will bite. Where you might be talking about how it has improved the operation and feel of the clutch.

Regards

Riggaz

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No I'm referring to the biting point... the point at which the clutch is fully engaged with the transmission. The position of the biting point hasnt changed.
The operation and feel of the clutch in terms in pressing and depressing the pedal hasnt changed as its still the same hydraulics.

Try to release the standard clutch at 750rpm and it will stall. The old clutch wasnt worn, it was well within service limit and had an easy life.

I'm so impressed with the heavy duty springs that I'm going to fit one to my other k-series car with only 19,000 miles on the clock.

thats what they should be and the early engines were built so they were all that hight but the accountants stopped the factory using different hight liners to get them correct so later engines came with liners that were all the same and didn't take block variance into account therefore the liners sit at differant hights.

when you warm up a race engine you set the revs to high idle 2000rpm - 2500rpm and the lack of stat means it doesn't get the shock of gettin hot then having cool water flushed thru the system

Northern Irelander said:

No I'm referring to the biting point... the point at which the clutch is fully engaged with the transmission. The position of the biting point hasnt changed.
The operation and feel of the clutch in terms in pressing and depressing the pedal hasnt changed as its still the same hydraulics.

Try to release the standard clutch at 750rpm and it will stall. The old clutch wasnt worn, it was well within service limit and had an easy life.

I'm so impressed with the heavy duty springs that I'm going to fit one to my other k-series car with only 19,000 miles on the clock.

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Hmmm, it's good that it works better than the original bud, do you mean it's easier to slip the clutch on the HD clutch, i know the hydraulics are the same but the springs on HD clutches tend to be stronger meaning you get a stiffer pedal and a smaller biting point. The only thing that usually stops an engine from stalling is the ECU altering the revs. I would avoid the idle speed take off's if i were you purely from a mechanical point of view, when an engine is at idle the oil pressure is quite low especially @ 750rpm so your most of your bearing are not getting a great amount of oil forced through them, this is no problem at idle but under load they need to have more oil pressure to force the oil between the metal faces keeping them apart. Food for thought.

good luck

Riggaz

Northern Irelander said:

bez_man said:

You dont find it underpowed?

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Your not revving it enough, k-series has better performance at the higher revs. More power than the Td4 or L-series.

Fit a de-cat pipe and performance air filter, you will see all flat spots in the lower rev range disappear. 52mm Alu throttle body will give a few more horses, or go the whole hog and fit direct to head throttle bodies (£££)

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Mine isnt underpowered, no. But mines a 2500 KV6....
But I dont live in England I live in Doha where we have a requirement for being able to get to top speed in as little time as possible (anyone whos been to Dubai will understand.)

We got rear ended this morning by a lad in a lancer doing some fair lick, his bumper was trashed. the hippo was undamaged... again (not the first time being rear ended in it)

bez_man said:

We got rear ended this morning by a lad in a lancer doing some fair lick, his bumper was trashed. the hippo was undamaged... again

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an i bet he never dropped his mobile either?

gramor said:

an i bet he never dropped his mobile either?

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Theres a system here whereby if any damage is caused in an accident, the police must be called before the vehicles can move from the scene. Then to claim on the insurance, a police report must be obtained. However you can leave the scene if both parties agree there is no damage.

The kid was all "Oh, no damage, is fine is fine. We go.." which is a classic case of no driving licence...

bez_man said:

Theres a system here whereby if any damage is caused in an accident, the police must be called before the vehicles can move from the scene. Then to claim on the insurance, a police report must be obtained. However you can leave the scene if both parties agree there is no damage.

The kid was all "Oh, no damage, is fine is fine. We go.." which is a classic case of no driving licence...

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Or 200 ltrs of fertiliser and 25 Kg of 50mm nails in the back

redhand said:

Or 200 ltrs of fertiliser and 25 Kg of 50mm nails in the back

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with our locals more likely to be 200ltr spirits and 25kg 'frankie vaughen' dvd's.

Whatever his reason, saved half a day being jibbered at by some traffic policeman just to fill a form in.

Northern Irelander said:

No I'm referring to the biting point... the point at which the clutch is fully engaged with the transmission. The position of the biting point hasnt changed.

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Ah'm sorry I know your irish but that just dunt make sense. Not even fer a paddy. The biting point is the biting point end of story. The fact that your clutch will pull at low revs has absolutely nothing to do with the biting point. Once you've reached the biting point you are holding the car on a knife edge so to speak depress pedal slightly and the clutch will disengage. release the pedal and the clutch will engage, end of story. what happens after that. I:e stall or go is down to the friction plate and the springs. as well as the amount of fuel getting to the cylinders not enough fuel and you'll stall too much and you'll spin the wheels

fook me, im glad i missed this one

btw yella my post wasn't random it was a response to a previous question just incase ya dint read the uva posts and just started at 42(the meaning of life?)

riggaz said:

Hmmm, it's good that it works better than the original bud, do you mean it's easier to slip the clutch on the HD clutch, i know the hydraulics are the same but the springs on HD clutches tend to be stronger meaning you get a stiffer pedal and a smaller biting point. The only thing that usually stops an engine from stalling is the ECU altering the revs. I would avoid the idle speed take off's if i were you purely from a mechanical point of view, when an engine is at idle the oil pressure is quite low especially @ 750rpm so your most of your bearing are not getting a great amount of oil forced through them, this is no problem at idle but under load they need to have more oil pressure to force the oil between the metal faces keeping them apart. Food for thought.

good luck

Riggaz

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Yes good nugget of info about the oil pressure

Oil pressure in the 1.8 k-series is usually high even if low oil levels. Bottom end of the drivetrain is virtually indestructable, valve train has a good oil feed system. A sticky hydraulic tappet is usually the weak link.

The ECU (MEMS 1.9) feedback really only varies when the engine is warming up, throttle position potentiometer is controlled by temp & lambda sensors, with subsequent varying injector pulses.

As with all new clutches it felt like you were going to put your foot through the bulkhead it was that light, this went after clutch had bedded in. I should also point out that there is an extra 12mm on the diameter of the clutch plate, this explains the extra 'torque' and yes you're quite right the biting point is marginally shorter.

redhand said:

Ah'm sorry I know your irish but that just dunt make sense. Not even fer a paddy. The biting point is the biting point end of story. The fact that your clutch will pull at low revs has absolutely nothing to do with the biting point. Once you've reached the biting point you are holding the car on a knife edge so to speak depress pedal slightly and the clutch will disengage. release the pedal and the clutch will engage, end of story. what happens after that. I:e stall or go is down to the friction plate and the springs. as well as the amount of fuel getting to the cylinders not enough fuel and you'll stall too much and you'll spin the wheels

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Sorry Redhand but you're showing your ignorance on the cultural front. I dont mind being called a paddy or an Irish man. The fact that I have a British passport makes me British, not Irish..... If anything I should be stereotyped as an Ulsterman...... but thats beside the point .
Its random broad weeping statements like that which can open a whole can of worms. Are you aware that they have a different currency in the south of Ireland? We've even got public transport, schools and an infrastructure...some of us even are degree educated, imagine that ehhh


Hold on here a minute.... I'm the one driving a Freelander 1.8 with heavy duty clutch. Unless you are driving the same you are in no position to comment. Get yourself equipped with one and then we'll compare notes

After revious years of Motocross and holding the bike on a knife edge (as you put it) at the starting line, I am well aware of what a biting point is and countless slipping of clutches bringing the power band into play causing wheel spin.

Enough said about the clutch issue for me, I've spammed this thread enough

riggaz said:

Hmmm, it's good that it works better than the original bud, do you mean it's easier to slip the clutch on the HD clutch, i know the hydraulics are the same but the springs on HD clutches tend to be stronger meaning you get a stiffer pedal and a smaller biting point. The only thing that usually stops an engine from stalling is the ECU altering the revs. I would avoid the idle speed take off's if i were you purely from a mechanical point of view, when an engine is at idle the oil pressure is quite low especially @ 750rpm so your most of your bearing are not getting a great amount of oil forced through them, this is no problem at idle but under load they need to have more oil pressure to force the oil between the metal faces keeping them apart. Food for thought.

good luck

Riggaz

Click to expand...

Yes good nugget of info about the oil pressure

Oil pressure in the 1.8 k-series is usually high even if low oil levels. Bottom end of the drivetrain is virtualy indestructable, valve train has a good oil feed system. A sticky hydraulic tappet is usually the weak link.

The ECU (MEMS 1.9) feedback really only varies when the engine is warming up, throttle position potentiometer is controlled by temp & lambda sensors, with subsequent varying injector pulses.

As with all new clutches it felt like you were going to put your foot through the bulkhead it was that light, this went after clutch had bedded in. I should also point out that there is an extra 12mm on the diameter of the clutch plate, this explains the extra 'torque' and yes you're quite right the biting point is marginally shorter.

redhand said:

Ah'm sorry I know your irish but that just dunt make sense. Not even fer a paddy. The biting point is the biting point end of story. The fact that your clutch will pull at low revs has absolutely nothing to do with the biting point. Once you've reached the biting point you are holding the car on a knife edge so to speak depress pedal slightly and the clutch will disengage. release the pedal and the clutch will engage, end of story. what happens after that. I:e stall or go is down to the friction plate and the springs. as well as the amount of fuel getting to the cylinders not enough fuel and you'll stall too much and you'll spin the wheels

Click to expand...

Sorry Redhand but you're showing your ignorance on the cultural front. I dont mind being called a paddy or an Irish man. The fact that I have a British passport makes me British, not Irish..... If anything I should be stereotyped as an Ulsterman...... but thats beside the point .
Its random broad weeping statements like that which can open a whole can of worms. Are you aware that they have a different currency in the south of Ireland? We've even got public transport, schools and an infrastructure...some of us are even degree educated, imagine that ehhh


Hold on here a minute.... I'm the one driving a Freelander 1.8 with heavy duty clutch. Unless you are driving the same you are in no position to comment. Get yourself equipped with one and then we'll compare notes

After revious years of Motocross and holding the bike on a knife edge (as you put it) at the starting line, I am well aware of what a biting point is and countless slipping of clutches bringing the power band into play causing wheel spin.

Enough said about the clutch issue for me, I've spammed this thread enough

Northern Irelander said:

Sorry Redhand but you're showing your ignorance on the cultural front. I dont mind being called a paddy or an Irish man. The fact that I have a British passport makes me British, not Irish.....

yer an irishman but yer not irish


If anything I should be stereotyped as an Ulsterman...... but thats beside the point .
Its random broad weeping statements like that which can open a whole can of worms. Are you aware that they have a different currency in the south of Ireland? We've even got public transport, schools and an infrastructure...some of us are even degree educated, imagine that ehhh


Hold on here a minute.... I'm the one driving a Freelander 1.8 with heavy duty clutch. Unless you are driving the same you are in no position to comment. Get yourself equipped with one and then we'll compare notes

After revious years of Motocross and holding the bike on a knife edge (as you put it) at the starting line, I am well aware of what a biting point is and countless slipping of clutches bringing the power band into play causing wheel spin.

Enough said about the clutch issue for me, I've spammed this thread enough

Click to expand...

yer still don't get it, do ya?

during the travel of the clutch pedal from depressed to released, there comes a POINT where it starts to take up drive. this is known as the biting point.. it is has no properties other than occupying a place in the travel of the pedal. its is not sharp. its is not sloppy. it is a reference point.. the main point of its name is that it is a POINT.

the biting POINT moves up the pedal travel as the friction plate wears, and as the plate wears the amount of slip increases. this have no bearing on the biting point other than to shift it furthur up the travel arc.

the actual drive take up could be sharp or sloopy depending on all sorts of stuff not least the strenght of yer springs.. but not the biting point ..FFS

Northern Irelander said:

Sorry Redhand but you're showing your ignorance on the cultural front. I dont mind being called a paddy or an Irish man. The fact that I have a British passport makes me British, not Irish..... If anything I should be stereotyped as an Ulsterman......

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Funnily enough I would have thought that been an Ulster Man you might have seen my forum name and made the connection. My Da was born on the shankill. So I know all about the "culture" your still an irishman Ulster has always been a part of Ireland It may be under semi british rule at the moment But that isn't gonna last long is it.

Hold on here a minute.... I'm the one driving a Freelander 1.8 with heavy duty clutch. Unless you are driving the same you are in no position to comment. Get yourself equipped with one and then we'll compare notes

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After the frontal lobotomy maybe.

After previous years of Motocross and holding the bike on a knife edge (as you put it) at the starting line, I am well aware of what a biting point is and countless slipping of clutches bringing the power band into play causing wheel spin.

Click to expand...

After 30 years of riding and driving countless Bikes Cars and Vans, I can tell you that there's no such thing as an improved biting point every veicle with a clutch has a biting point with most vehicles it changes as the clutch wears or the cable stretches. Until it no longer Bites!! then you change the clutch.

redhand said:

Funnily enough I would have thought that been an Ulster Man you might have seen my forum name and made the connection. My Da was born on the shankill. So I know all about the "culture" your still an irishman Ulster has always been a part of Ireland It may be under semi british rule at the moment But that isn't gonna last long is it.



After the frontal lobotomy maybe.




After 30 years of riding and driving countless Bikes Cars and Vans, I can tell you that there's no such thing as an improved biting point every veicle with a clutch has a biting point with most vehicles it changes as the clutch wears or the cable stretches. Until it no longer Bites!! then you change the clutch.

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Easy chaps, at the end of the day the HD clutch is better. Lets not get too pedantic over technicality, it doesn't matter that much. We seem to have got sidetracked into slagging each others country off which cant be good.

have a good weekend

Riggaz

but it int pedantic to some folk.. some come on here to learn about their vehicles and pick up a few tips on how to get the best from them. if the wrong terms are used to describe something its the folk who most need help that suffer.

say for instance someone had a noisy engine and he spoke to someone in a pub about it and the bloke in the pub sed " oh thats your crankshaft that needs replacing. take it to a garage and tell them to change yer crankshaft.
but don't let them talk you into get more done.

bloke with car says thanks fer that and duly take his motor to garage and tell them to replace crankshaft.

head man at garage listens to engine and rightly diet noses a worn camshaft bearing, so he tell the bloke wiff the car its yer camshaft bearing.

bloke wiff car remembers what his mate in the pub sed about not letting the garage talk him into anything else so he insists that the garage changes crankshaft.

am sure you can see where this is leading, but it should be enough to say "if yer gonna post information try and ensure its correct"

we can all get it wrong and should be willing to correct the mistakes when pointed out, otherwise the folk that come on here that openly admit to being clueless about cars, engines and any thing mechanical will be picking up duff info and passing it on to 'their mechanics' with the result they look a right **** and no doubt some garages will take advantage to lighten the bloke wallet by another few hundred

slob said:

but it int pedantic to some folk.. some come on here to learn about their vehicles and pick up a few tips on how to get the best from them. if the wrong terms are used to describe something its the folk who most need help that suffer.

say for instance someone had a noisy engine and he spoke to someone in a pub about it and the bloke in the pub sed " oh thats your crankshaft that needs replacing. take it to a garage and tell them to change yer crankshaft.
but don't let them talk you into get more done.

bloke with car says thanks fer that and duly take his motor to garage and tell them to replace crankshaft.

head man at garage listens to engine and rightly diet noses a worn camshaft bearing, so he tell the bloke wiff the car its yer camshaft bearing.

bloke wiff car remembers what his mate in the pub sed about not letting the garage talk him into anything else so he insists that the garage changes crankshaft.

am sure you can see where this is leading, but it should be enough to say "if yer gonna post information try and ensure its correct"

we can all get it wrong and should be willing to correct the mistakes when pointed out, otherwise the folk that come on here that openly admit to being clueless about cars, engines and any thing mechanical will be picking up duff info and passing it on to 'their mechanics' with the result they look a right **** and no doubt some garages will take advantage to lighten the bloke wallet by another few hundred

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If someone say's something and everyone else says that you are not describing right then i think thats enough bud, when you start taking the **** out of someone because they're Irish then i cant see what it does for your argument. He wasn't giving technical advice to anyone from what i can remember, he was just describing the improvement of a product that he had bought.

make love not war

Riggaz