Woke or just a eco idiot

Many of the urban younger generation tend to use uber etc rather than go through the hoops and expense of owning a private car these days,
Combined with home working half the week, online shopping and timed home deliveries and the fact that many
are busting their asses saving for a house or paying half their income in rent, they dont have the need, cash or inclination to buy a eco compliant private car whatever the 'green' power source

Lots on the news about batteries and fires,
1500 cars went up in smoke at luton airport and i wouldnt be surprised it was an E.V that caused the conflagration

rynner said:

Many of the urban younger generation tend to use uber etc rather than go through the hoops and expense of owning a private car these days,
Combined with home working half the week, online shopping and timed home deliveries and the fact that many
are busting their asses saving for a house or paying half their income in rent, they dont have the need, cash or inclination to buy a eco compliant private car whatever the 'green' power source

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And then we have the backwards peeps such as myself who still live in the far flung hinterlands and need to travel miles for work and the sundries of life. Through extreme heat and numbing cold. For miles. And more miles.

Hauling. Plowing.Towing.

Uh huh.

Thats one of the drawbacks,
Its not the rural folk that are formulating policy in this country,
I'm not sure whether the p.m actually owns a car or can even drive one,
a youngster just out of education with a driving license down here has a better chance of finding a regular, good job than somebody who cant drive but has a degree in media studies or suchlike and has to rely on public transport to get to work,

rynner said:

Thats one if the drawbacks,
Its not the rural folk that are formulating policy in this country,
I'm not sure whether the p.m actually owns a car or can even drive one,

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That is why a blended solution is the key. Lunnen cannot shape the rest of the country and nor should it. There will always be a place for all fuel types. It’s like the U turn on heating oil, it is widely accepted heat source pumps cannot currently deliver the solution. Until it can then a multi fuel approach to the a basic human necessity is the right answer.

It will be next to impossible to build and sell private cars, commercial and delivery vehicles that cannot go into 'zoned' areas such as most towns and cities will be within 10 years,
If driverless delivery vehicles and buses do start appearing in the near future then it will be the pretty much the nail in the coffin of driving for pleasure on most roads,

gstuart said:

Many thks as always for info , talking of batteries I assume that EV’s have been getting lighter with battery advancements

curious as more EV’s are introduced onto our roads if our roads will suffer in any way , read somewhere there’s roughly around 1.5 million EV’s, of course understand our roads arnt the best from the get go

suppose at the end of the day as EV numbers increase I wonder what the gov will do with regards to taxes , ie pay per mile etc

as a side note see the new Tesla HGV over a 24 hour period with 3 x charges had a range of just over a 1,000 miles, bet California air quality will improve dramatically

just seen this

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Yes, they would suffer as more weight, as a rule of thumb, will lead to higher wear and tear. But the roads are already very bad, hence I drive the cars I have (seems like a loop - drive big, heavy vehicle, because of bad roads. Big heavy vehicle helps to create bad roads. In all seriousness, UK is just bad at road build and maintenance).

Yes, tax will have to change, didn't they start talking about it this summer or last? but then went silent due to elections? It will happen once critical mass of EV kicks in or they would just want more money, which is always.

Over 1k miles and 3 charges for a truck, to me, that is not bad at all. Did it carry load? what weight of load? The funny part, is that the tesla cars are still delivered by ICE trucks. Last year I read that California mainly burns gas for its electricity needs? (happy for an updated source breakdown to be shared).

"all new 2024 cybertruck" lol, i guess if it has been promised for many years, but still not released, it is "all new". Oh look, I see pigs flying south for the winter..

doriz said:

That is why a blended solution is the key. Lunnen cannot shape the rest of the country and nor should it. There will always be a place for all fuel types. It’s like the U turn on heating oil, it is widely accepted heat source pumps cannot currently deliver the solution. Until it can then a multi fuel approach to the a basic human necessity is the right answer.

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Plus, there is just not enough of material to produce the same amount of EV cars. EV alone is just not feasible or sustainable. If all needs battery, we do not have enough of it to go around. Then the price will sky rocket for everything that will need the material. Working public transport for cities is the answer for the cities. For rural, one needs a transport, the public one does not work well for that. Teleportation anyone?

newb said:

Plus, there is just not enough of material to produce the same amount of EV cars. EV alone is just not feasible or sustainable. If all needs battery, we do not have enough of it to go around. Then the price will sky rocket for everything that will need the material. Working public transport for cities is the answer for the cities. For rural, one needs a transport, the public one does not work well for that. Teleportation anyone?

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Should be more intra rail and not 3 carriages running twice a day. Inconvenience leads folk to put more cars on the road. My commute is 26 miles each way, I used to cycle it and it didn’t take much longer, bus forget it, train forget it. No choice but to run a car, alternative is to go on benefits like 55% of the country.

There are always going to be discussions both for and against EVs, and the potential environmental impact producing of them. In the fossil fueled industrial world we live in, there are far worse environmental issues than building EVs, namely the extraction of those fossil fuels. It can't be argued that the FFI has done and continues to do enormous amounts of damage to the natural world and the air around it, yet people forget that when someone mentions EV battery production. EV battery production is basically clean compared to the production of fuels, and that fuel can only be used once and its gone.
EVs on the other hand can in theory be part of a circular economy, where end of life vehicle batteries, electronics, along with the more conventional car bits can be recycled and reused in the production of more vehicles.

EVs are definitely better for the environment over their lifetime compared to a similar segment ICE vehicle, so it'll give us humans a bit more time to come up with completely green transportation for the ever increasing population to move around.

Some of the videos ref the data

newb said:

Plus, there is just not enough of material to produce the same amount of EV cars. EV alone is just not feasible or sustainable. If all needs battery, we do not have enough of it to go around. Then the price will sky rocket for everything that will need the material. Working public transport for cities is the answer for the cities. For rural, one needs a transport, the public one does not work well for that. Teleportation anyone?

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Oil will run out before lithium, but as there are other non-lithium based battery technologies being developed all the time, the electrical car market won't be so reliant on lithium as a resource in the future. Lithium and other minerals can be recycled from
EV batteries are already moving away from cobalt in production, as it's expensive to refine, and it's difficult to control the exact sources of the raw ore, 50% of the world's supply comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo, where its difficult to determine exactly who is profiting from cobalt sales and at who's expense. So in response to lots of negative press about cobalt mining using forced child labour, funding of armed groups and whatever else goes on, the battery manufacturers have started moving to cobalt free LFP batteries instead.

I'm not anti ICE far from it, our family fleet is mix of diesel and petrol cars, but I'm also not afraid to move over to an EV when they become a more affordable proposition.

Nodge68 said:

There are always going to be discussions both for and against EVs, and the potential environmental impact producing of them. In the fossil fueled industrial world we live in, there are far worse environmental issues than building EVs, namely the extraction of those fossil fuels. It can't be argued that the FFI has done and continues to do enormous amounts of damage to the natural world and the air around it, yet people forget that when someone mentions EV battery production. EV battery production is basically clean compared to the production of fuels, and that fuel can only be used once and its gone.
EVs on the other hand can in theory be part of a circular economy, where end of life vehicle batteries, electronics, along with the more conventional car bits can be recycled and reused in the production of more vehicles.

EVs are definitely better for the environment over their lifetime compared to a similar segment ICE vehicle, so it'll give us humans a bit more time to come up with completely green transportation for the ever increasing population to move around.

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Of course there will discussions.

No, battery production is not clean, it is well documented that it is a dirty business.

Yes, circular battery economy would be nice, but at the moment we recycle hardly any batteries. We are only starting to put a system in and force it.

Not sure about extraction of fossil, but of use - yes. It goes the same for electric cars - if the energy to power it, the dirt sticks to EV as well. There is actually a breakeven point for EV vs ICE when EV becomes cleaner than ICE. It ignores the fact of recycle - say me buying a used ICE instead of a new EV. It is better to reuse ICE than to get a new EV.

We will keep extracting oil because it has mass use - jet and ship fuel, clothing, cosmetics, plastic, tyres etc. we will not move away from those any time soon. Cars is just a part of the bigger pie.

The point mentioned above is that EV cannot be the sole answer as it cannot satisfy the demand and as it stands now and is projected to be, cannot be for the masses.

Agree, EV and transport as a general is a very small pollutant ,look at construction, jet travel, transportation of good (e.g. ships) just to support our lifestyles. We are not prepared to give those up, hence it will not get better. EV is just a distraction.

gstuart said:

Some of the videos ref the data

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I have seen many of such videos over the years and the conclusion I came to with Tesla is that until I seen it on the road myself, it ain't real. How many times we have been told/promised - Tesla roadster, Tesla self-driving, tesla cyber truck, Tesla cyber truck bullet proof windows, Tesla is safe- yet..., Telsa robot and many more. It has a very strong media engine to keep their stock high. They are about to be overtaken by BYD as the biggest EV manufacturer and they just missed their production targets. They need to keep their overhyped stock price high.

doriz said:

Should be more intra rail and not 3 carriages running twice a day. Inconvenience leads folk to put more cars on the road. My commute is 26 miles each way, I used to cycle it and it didn’t take much longer, bus forget it, train forget it. No choice but to run a car, alternative is to go on benefits like 55% of the country.

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Oh yeah, the public transport is a joke in UK. London transport is very expensive. Where it is good, people have less cars. There is no question about the benefits and that it works.

doriz said:

That is why a blended solution is the key. Lunnen cannot shape the rest of the country and nor should it. There will always be a place for all fuel types. It’s like the U turn on heating oil, it is widely accepted heat source pumps cannot currently deliver the solution. Until it can then a multi fuel approach to the a basic human necessity is the right answer.

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Domestic heating is a big issue, and no at the moment heat pumps aren't up to the job in older properties.

I have wondered if it would be possible to develop a combination fuel/heat pump boiler for older less well insulated properties. Maybe using a combination of air source and a small boiler as a booster to add a bit more energy to the mix. Unfortunately air source systems just don't provide enough heat energy to comfortably warm an old house, even houses from the later 90s will struggle to be warm using a heat pump.

Nodge68 said:

Domestic heating is a big issue, and no at the moment heat pumps aren't up to the job in older properties.

I have wondered if it would be possible to develop a combination fuel/heat pump boiler for older less well insulated properties. Maybe using a combination of air source and a small boiler as a booster to add a bit more energy to the mix. Unfortunately air source systems just don't provide enough heat energy to comfortably warm an old house, even houses from the later 90s will struggle to be warm using a heat pump.

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Agree, given the quality of house building in the UK, but even the new ones, it will not work with heat pumps. You need to build like they do in Scandinavia. It is worse due to the price. Friend is waiting for the prices to drop once Germany starts to produce heat pumps in anger due to their over reliance on gas and the politics.

MJI said:

Heard an electric car with dound track this weekend, artificial sound track was only missing the clink of milk bottles.

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I'm sure it can be programmed in

kermit_rr said:

I'm sure it can be programmed in

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Should be able to. But then, why do you need to have a sound?

Nodge68 said:

Domestic heating is a big issue, and no at the moment heat pumps aren't up to the job in older properties.

I have wondered if it would be possible to develop a combination fuel/heat pump boiler for older less well insulated properties. Maybe using a combination of air source and a small boiler as a booster to add a bit more energy to the mix. Unfortunately air source systems just don't provide enough heat energy to comfortably warm an old house, even houses from the later 90s will struggle to be warm using a heat pump.

Click to expand...

wonder if using a buffer tank to stop boiler from cycling , linked to a hot water cylinder with a double coil

using The hot water to pump round the rads , with the twin coil maybe one off a heat pump and the other off boiler

done Many systems with the twin coil, one coil off solar, other was the boiler

control wise can a fit 3 x port to switch between hot water and heating , however depending on volume might have to do a priority setting, plus correct sizing of zone valves in relation to btu rating

indeed with any heat pump need to prevent it from cycling , another issue of course if ensuring it doesn’t use the internal electric element when there’s a short fall

so handy using a buffer / hot water store to use for the rads, will also need a program to heat the water to 60c for the legionaries

totally agree that heat pumps arnt any good for older properties , ie, bad insulation along with then having to oversize the rads , many reasons why buffer tanks are ideal to prevent the cycling , really enjoyed designing quite a few heating systems , but alas heating has advanced more and more in the last 10 x years

also there’s an issue with low temperature water, was ideal for UFH but on rads along with the higher temps of the boiler flow and returns need to work out the delta t , or air temps req in each room, air changes , mixers are sometimes required

main issue would of course Be the range of water temperatures , but again using a buffer tank will help equalise that

hope that waffle sort of makes sense

just a few ideas my friend