Woke or just a eco idiot

kermit_rr said:

No RE elements in batteries in but are used in electric motors and other parts, though they are developing RE free motors.
Batteries are split into their individual cells which are repurposed when no longer viable for use in a car, but the cells can't yet be recycled routinely, it costs more to recycle than to mine new lithium

Click to expand...

Correct. Many OEM motor manufacturers like Bosch, and vehicle manufacturers like Tesla, Nissan and VW are all either using and or developing induction motors that don't need any rare earth materials. It makes more financial sense to move away from RE PM motors, and switch to induction as they are cheaper to manufacture, and aren't reliant on supplies of rare earth materials from countries with questionable economic and political standpoints.

There are a growing number of recycling facilities opening up which can recover over 90% of the materials used in EV batteries. The main issue is there are currently very few batteries available to recycle, as they have a very long life, and because of the reuse market, prices of recovered batteries are expensive.
Used EV batteries are valuable as demand is high and supply is limited. Contrary to popular belief, EV batteries won't be going to land fill, as they are just too valuable.

Heard an electric car with dound track this weekend, artificial sound track was only missing the clink of milk bottles.

MJI said:

Heard an electric car with dound track this weekend, artificial sound track was only missing the clink of milk bottles.

Click to expand...

Sue noticed as well. Some of these sound systems are pants

Some sound like a bloody childs spinning top

Mine sounds like the wind when it whistles past traffic like a phooking Exocet missile.

Typical LZ, starts with keying paintwork to hating EVs. It’s like the good old days

doriz said:

Mine sounds like the wind when it whistles past traffic like a phooking Exocet missile.

Typical LZ, starts with keying paintwork to hating EVs. It’s like the good old days

Click to expand...

It was you with the key, or was is because she was black?

WhiskyLassie said:

Мені знайшли ці ековоїни

Слід орієнтуватися на 1,0-літрові позашляховики, які настільки слабкі, що двигун потрібно більше працювати, щоб рухатися повністю з нашими «вбивцями дітей».

Click to expand...

Спіймати одного (краще небагато) еко підарас(ів) і прив'язати скотчем до дерева на ніч оголеним.
Catch one (preferably a few) eco podaras and tape them to a tree naked for the night.

Messerschmitt said:

Спіймати одного (краще небагато) еко підарас(ів) і прив'язати скотчем до дерева на ніч оголеним.
Catch one (preferably a few) eco podaras and tape them to a tree naked for the night.

Click to expand...

I totally forgot about that post and why was it in Russian. Was I drinking?

doriz said:

Typical LZ, starts with keying paintwork to hating EVs. It’s like the good old days

Click to expand...

Nah. The old days were better.

Although we hated EVs then, too.

WhiskyLassie said:

Я зовсім забув про той пост і чому він був російською. Я пив?

Click to expand...

Ні, друже, ти не пив( але це не точно, хто зна ))). То скоріше мій перекладач.
ТА ЦЕ НЕ РОСІЙСЬКА, чорт забирай, це Українська. Це різні речі.
No, friend, you didn't drink (but it's not certain, who knows))). Rather, he is my translator.
AND IT'S NOT RUSSIAN, dammit, it's Ukrainian. These are different things.

Messerschmitt said:

Ні, друже, ти не пив( але це не точно, хто зна ))). То скоріше мій перекладач.
ТА ЦЕ НЕ РОСІЙСЬКА, чорт забирай, це Українська. Це різні речі.
No, friend, you didn't drink (but it's not certain, who knows))). Rather, he is my translator.
AND IT'S NOT RUSSIAN, dammit, it's Ukrainian. These are different things.

Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with Cyrillic languages enough to know the difference.

Nodge68 said:

Oh dear. Someone has been brainwashed by the fossil fuel lobbyists.
THERE ARE NO RARE EARTH MATERIALS IN AN EV BATTERY. Batteries can also be recycled.
The materials used to make batteries are also not flown anywhere, they are transported by boat, the same way any bulk materials are.

Click to expand...

Interesting comment - but why, these days, does everyone have to be a lobbyist / activist / influencer?
So anyone with an opposing view must have been brainwashed?
Why not moderate your language and just educate people?
Such aggression.

P38 Monkey said:

Interesting comment - but why, these days, does everyone have to be a lobbyist / activist / influencer?
So anyone with an opposing view must have been brainwashed?
Why not moderate your language and just educate people?
Such aggression.

Click to expand...

I get a bit peeved because that same old incorrect comments are repeated over and over, you know the one's where "materials for batteries are dug up by children using their bare hands", but it's a very inaccurate argument.

Here's some educational information.

There are no rare earth materials in an EV battery, but Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC) batteries do contain an amount of Cobalt. However the whole argument for Cobalt is moot, as it's also used by fuel manufacturers as a catalyst to remove sulfur from the fuels.
Cobalt is also used in the batteries of every smartphone, laptop, power bank, vape and millions of other rechargeable electronic devices.

Fun fact. In the UK every year enough disposable vapes are thrown away to make over 6,000 Tesla model S long range batteries. No that has got to be stopped, as these vapes cause fires in waste disposal facilities and vehicles, not to mention the waste of simply throwing away all those resources.

Most EV manufacturers are moving away from NMC batteries, switching to the safer less environmentally damaging, and less combustible Lithium Iron Phosphate (LifePO4 or LFP) batteries which has several benefits over NMC, dispite being less energy dense.

Nodge68 said:

I get a bit peeved because that same old incorrect comments are repeated over and over, you know the one's where "materials for batteries are dug up by children using their bare hands", but it's a very inaccurate argument.

Here's some educational information.

There are no rare earth materials in an EV battery, but Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC) batteries do contain an amount of Cobalt. However the whole argument for Cobalt is moot, as it's also used by fuel manufacturers as a catalyst to remove sulfur from the fuels.
Cobalt is also used in the batteries of every smartphone, laptop, power bank, vape and millions of other rechargeable electronic devices.

Fun fact. In the UK every year enough disposable vapes are thrown away to make over 6,000 Tesla model S long range batteries. No that has got to be stopped, as these vapes cause fires in waste disposal facilities and vehicles, not to mention the waste of simply throwing away all those resources.

Most EV manufacturers are moving away from NMC batteries, switching to the safer less environmentally damaging, and less combustible Lithium Iron Phosphate (LifePO4 or LFP) batteries which has several benefits over NMC, dispite being less energy dense.

Click to expand...

Understood, and thank you for the very helpful update.

doriz said:

Mine sounds like the wind when it whistles past traffic like a phooking Exocet missile.

Typical LZ, starts with keying paintwork to hating EVs. It’s like the good old days

Click to expand...

Totally And add cultural ignorance as well in the mix

I think time will tell re EV. All I know now is that there are a lot of promises of soon. The battery technology used today took over 40 years to develop (EV cars are as old as ICE), the infrastructure (in the UK at least) is just crap. And I am yet to see an actually affordable EV for the masses. If it is the answer, I hope it delivers sooner.

I had an online search to find out what 'rare earth' metals, oxides and lanthanides actually are and what their uses are, they do seem to be integral to modern, ie post ad1800 industrial processes,
Related is that down here the gov is going full steam after lithium and other non rare earth metals in the old mining areas, these metals are apparently crucial to the new generation of batteries and 'national security' due to possible future geopolitical events reducing supplies for the fledgling E.V industry is cited as a reason to disregard local opposoition and ignore/bypass planning constraints,
In many places it seems that areas of land that have recovered and regrown from previous large scale mining activities,perhaps from a hundred years or more ago will be opened up to industry again, the valleys and uplands behind Porthleven on the south coast is one area that looks like it will see drastic change fairly soon,
The metals they are after are not just for E.V cars, smaller solar systems and wind generators need to store the power generated, usually in a bank of batteries.

rynner said:

I had an online search to find out what 'rare earth' metals, oxides and lanthanides actually are and what their uses are, they do seem to be integral to modern, ie post ad1800 industrial processes,
Related is that down here the gov is going full steam after lithium and other non rare earth metals in the old mining areas, these metals are apparently crucial to the new generation of batteries and 'national security' due to possible future geopolitical events reducing supplies for the fledgling E.V industry is cited as a reason to disregard local opposoition and ignore/bypass planning constaints,
In many places it seems that areas of land that have recovered and regrown from previous large scale mining activities,perhats from a hundred years or more ago will be opened up to industry again, the valleys and uplands behind Porthleven on the south coast is one area that looks like it will see drastic change fairly soon,
The metals they are after are not just for E.V cars, smaller solar systems and wind generators need to store the power generated, usually in a bank of batteries.

Click to expand...

Interesting, history repeating itself and Wales having a mining industry again.

From what I have seen, I think it was lithium, it takes a lot of very vital and scares resource (in the UK as well) in its production process - water. It is a large concern in South America, where water is already scares in the deserts and local populus is suffering. I am not really looking forward to having to pay higher rates for something simple as water here.

I do wonder of alternative solutions, such as carbon capture/reuse. I understand that the energy cost to capture it and to process it does not make economical sense atm. But that is sorting the energy problem (hello nuclear), reuse of what is already in the atmosphere and not having to use actually vital resource and not to continue to scar the planet for our consumerism.

Btw, can someone please explain to me why UK is chasing EV production, apart from obvious political, historic and prestige reasons. UK does not mine the resources (ok, subject to promise above, IF), has costlier labour, atm energy is cheaper than EU (but not vs the world). How would it be attractive and competitive? Huge tax breaks?

I totally understand if it focuses on R&D and design, but production?

Nodge68 said:

I get a bit peeved because that same old incorrect comments are repeated over and over, you know the one's where "materials for batteries are dug up by children using their bare hands", but it's a very inaccurate argument.

Here's some educational information.

There are no rare earth materials in an EV battery, but Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC) batteries do contain an amount of Cobalt. However the whole argument for Cobalt is moot, as it's also used by fuel manufacturers as a catalyst to remove sulfur from the fuels.
Cobalt is also used in the batteries of every smartphone, laptop, power bank, vape and millions of other rechargeable electronic devices.

Fun fact. In the UK every year enough disposable vapes are thrown away to make over 6,000 Tesla model S long range batteries. No that has got to be stopped, as these vapes cause fires in waste disposal facilities and vehicles, not to mention the waste of simply throwing away all those resources.

Most EV manufacturers are moving away from NMC batteries, switching to the safer less environmentally damaging, and less combustible Lithium Iron Phosphate (LifePO4 or LFP) batteries which has several benefits over NMC, dispite being less energy dense.

Click to expand...

Now I detest vapes, as well, but at least their use isn't being mandated by the Central Committee like EVs.

Nodge68 said:

I get a bit peeved because that same old incorrect comments are repeated over and over, you know the one's where "materials for batteries are dug up by children using their bare hands", but it's a very inaccurate argument.

Here's some educational information.

There are no rare earth materials in an EV battery, but Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC) batteries do contain an amount of Cobalt. However the whole argument for Cobalt is moot, as it's also used by fuel manufacturers as a catalyst to remove sulfur from the fuels.
Cobalt is also used in the batteries of every smartphone, laptop, power bank, vape and millions of other rechargeable electronic devices.

Fun fact. In the UK every year enough disposable vapes are thrown away to make over 6,000 Tesla model S long range batteries. No that has got to be stopped, as these vapes cause fires in waste disposal facilities and vehicles, not to mention the waste of simply throwing away all those resources.

Most EV manufacturers are moving away from NMC batteries, switching to the safer less environmentally damaging, and less combustible Lithium Iron Phosphate (LifePO4 or LFP) batteries which has several benefits over NMC, dispite being less energy dense.

Click to expand...

Many thks as always for info , talking of batteries I assume that EV’s have been getting lighter with battery advancements

curious as more EV’s are introduced onto our roads if our roads will suffer in any way , read somewhere there’s roughly around 1.5 million EV’s, of course understand our roads arnt the best from the get go

suppose at the end of the day as EV numbers increase I wonder what the gov will do with regards to taxes , ie pay per mile etc

as a side note see the new Tesla HGV over a 24 hour period with 3 x charges had a range of just over a 1,000 miles, bet California air quality will improve dramatically

just seen this