"wobbly" disco

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I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's
perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you
get a "speed wobble" where the steering wheel starts shaking from side
to side at great speed.
I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
the hubs.
Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas???

Dave

 
[email protected] wrote:
> I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's
> perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph
> you get a "speed wobble" where the steering wheel starts shaking from
> side to side at great speed.
> I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
> the hubs.
> Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas???
>
> Dave


Could easily be unbalanced front wheels matey.

Nige

--
Subaru WRX (Annabel)

Landrover 110 County Station Wagon (Tyson)

'"They called him Jimmy the gent"


 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's
> perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you
> get a "speed wobble" where the steering wheel starts shaking from side
> to side at great speed.
> I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
> the hubs.
> Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas???
>
> Dave
>


Yes both the above can cause the symptoms you describe.

Try removing the damper and mannually work it through it's range of
movement. If you get any slack areas. Usually around the centre then it
requires replacement.

The preloads are a matter of disconnecting the trackrod ends and checking
with a spring balance. It's not hard to do, just time consuming.

It's also worth taking the brake pads out when checking as they will mask
any bearing movement and create the impression that the swivel pins bearings
are defunct rather than the wheel bearing.

Also worth checking all your track rod ends given there are so many.

Lee D
--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover


 
so [email protected] was, like...
> I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's
> perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph
> you get a "speed wobble" where the steering wheel starts shaking from
> side to side at great speed.
> I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
> the hubs.
> Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas???
>
> Dave


1. Unbalanced front wheels - try swapping them side-to-side. Large amounts
of mud will also do this - think Jumbo's 90 at anything over 35mph.
Frightened me.
2. Incorrect swivel pre-load.

I don't think this is a damper problem. AIUI, the damper is mainly there to
prevent violent steering movement off-road or if you hit a big pothole.
Under normal circumstances, the steering *shouldn't* need damping. If you
fit a new damper and stops the shaking, all you have done is mask the
problem. The shaking forces are still there, they're just being damped out.
BICBW.


--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
On Sun, 22 May 2005 11:11:09 +0100, "Nige"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's
>> perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph
>> you get a "speed wobble" where the steering wheel starts shaking from
>> side to side at great speed.
>> I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
>> the hubs.
>> Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas???
>>
>> Dave

>
>Could easily be unbalanced front wheels matey.


Agreed, i've had this on my car and it was caused by unbalanced
wheels.
Get this checked before trying anything else as its the easiest
option!

 
On 2005-05-22, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
> the hubs.


Could also just be bad wheel balance, get the balancing done (should
cost about 6-10 quid) and see if that helps, if not then steering
damper is easiest to check by nicking one off someone else's disco
(with permission of course), then if that doesn't work get the preload
checked.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's
> perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you
> get a "speed wobble" where the steering wheel starts shaking from side
> to side at great speed.
> I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
> the hubs.
> Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas???
>
> Dave


That's almost 100% certain to be incorrect preload on the hubs, I have had
it happen on several Discoveries & Defenders. It's relatively easy to fix if
you have a selection of king pin shims and a large spring balance to set the
preload.

Hope this helps,
Fergus


 
On or around 22 May 2005 02:32:08 -0700, [email protected] enlightened us
thusly:

>I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's
>perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you
>get a "speed wobble" where the steering wheel starts shaking from side
>to side at great speed.
>I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
>the hubs.
>Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas???


if it happens mostly when you hit a bump with one wheel, I'd reckon steering
damper; the 110 used to do the same 'til I replaced it.

also check:

wheel balance
wheel bearings
ball joints
steering box play
main dampers
and yes, swivel bearings/preload.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.
 
>
>if it happens mostly when you hit a bump with one wheel, I'd reckon steering
>damper; the 110 used to do the same 'til I replaced it.
>
>also check:
>
>wheel balance
>wheel bearings
>ball joints
>steering box play
>main dampers
>and yes, swivel bearings/preload.


The real answer is probably "all of the above", insofar as that
attention to each of the items above is likely to yield some
improvement (unless they have recently been attended to).
..
You could feasibly have the original dampers and ball joints on there
(certainly well on the way to shagged if so) contributing just a
little play and vagueness. Add in lack of preload, a bit of
adjustment in the steering box, a bit of play in the wheel bearings
and wheel balance that isn't spot on and it adds up to a handling
nightmare. It's just a matter of working out where the biggest
contribution is coming from and whether you can live with what
remains.

To "fix this right" I'd want to have the whole lot checked over. The
parts are all pretty cheap, so once it's in the air with the wheels
off it won't cost much more to fully sort it. I've been here - cheap
fix to the steering damper made no odds, so I had it fully fettled
with great results.

As was said previously - the damper is just covering up play that
shouldn't ideally be there in the first place.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70
 
On Sun, 22 May 2005 11:44:36 +0100, Tom Woods wrote:

>>> At speeds above about 40 mph you get a "speed wobble" where the
>>> steering wheel starts shaking from side to side at great speed.

>
> Agreed, i've had this on my car and it was caused by unbalanced
> wheels.


I've had that as well. Can you drive through the shake? An unbalanced
wheel can be driven through in a range of 10 to 20mph from when it
becomes detectable. It won't go completely but will definately have a
peak(*) as the wheel RPM passes through resonance.

(*) Might be so bad that you can't safely drive through it...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On or around Sun, 22 May 2005 12:05:47 GMT, "news.virgin.net"
<frig,[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's
>> perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you
>> get a "speed wobble" where the steering wheel starts shaking from side
>> to side at great speed.
>> I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
>> the hubs.
>> Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas???
>>
>> Dave

>
>That's almost 100% certain to be incorrect preload on the hubs, I have had
>it happen on several Discoveries & Defenders. It's relatively easy to fix if
>you have a selection of king pin shims and a large spring balance to set the
>preload.


wasn't on my 110, it was a non-functional steering damper.

and when you say hubs I assume you mean swivels. Hub bearings have 2
different setting regimes on discos depending on which axle it is I suspect
- the early axle with the solid drive flange/shaft bit isn't the same as the
later one with the separate driving member and the plastic oil-retaining
hat.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
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On or around Sun, 22 May 2005 13:40:49 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>To "fix this right" I'd want to have the whole lot checked over. The
>parts are all pretty cheap, so once it's in the air with the wheels
>off it won't cost much more to fully sort it. I've been here - cheap
>fix to the steering damper made no odds, so I had it fully fettled
>with great results.
>
>As was said previously - the damper is just covering up play that
>shouldn't ideally be there in the first place.


All good advice. Mind, the damper is probably the easiest bit of all to
change :)

ball joints are easily checked, in the same way that they do on the MOT:
have someone shake the steering wheel back and fore about 1/4 turn max. and
watch the joints for movement.

ball joints can be a piece of wossname to change or can be an absolute
bastard. changing the RHS one on our 300 TDi had me resorting to an oxy
torch to heat the rod in order to shift it. When I put it back, it had
copper grease in the threads, pity LR don't do that in the first place.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Where they make a desert they call it peace" Tacitus (c.55 - c.117)
Agricola, 30
 
Our 95 did the same. I had the wheels balanced but it was still the same.
Set pre load on swivels, it helped a bit. Shiney new steering damper, that
helped a bit more. The garage who changed the damper suggested getting the
wheels balanced at a place that when they balance the wheel on their machine
it is held on by the same holes aas the wheel bolts and NOT on the centre
hole like most as they have had problems with the centre hole not being dead
centre.
Anyway, did as he said and now havent got any steering shake/wobble all the
way up to 95mph (on a private road of course!!).
Richard


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's
> perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you
> get a "speed wobble" where the steering wheel starts shaking from side
> to side at great speed.
> I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
> the hubs.
> Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas???
>
> Dave
>



 
>> > I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's
> > perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you
> > get a "speed wobble" where the steering wheel starts shaking from side
> > to side at great speed.
> > I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
> > the hubs.
> > Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas???


Further to all the above, get the tyres checked for roundness - if they are
wearing unevenly in places around the circumference that will cause a
wobble. In that case it's shocks. Mine had a dreadful understeer with duff
shocks too. I didn't realise what it was as it passed MOT like this, but
thanks to advice from others on this ng the problem was solved. They were
only about 20 quid for the pair too.

TonyB


 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Nige) wrote:

> Could easily be unbalanced front wheels matey.


And the damper, the unbalanced fronts introduce a bit of tremble which
quickly becomes a vigorous shake if the damper is knackered.

I collected a Discovery from Sheffield like that and the drive back to
SW Wales was "entertaining"

--
Niamh
4x4 Cymru
http://www.4x4cymru.co.uk

 
Ian Rawlings wrote:
> On 2005-05-22, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in
>>the hubs.

>
>
> Could also just be bad wheel balance, get the balancing done (should
> cost about 6-10 quid) and see if that helps, if not then steering
> damper is easiest to check by nicking one off someone else's disco
> (with permission of course), then if that doesn't work get the preload
> checked.
>


I'd check track rod ends, following to wheel balancing. I have also such
a 'mad' Disco. Current TR ends are diagnosed as 'worth changing' and
are ordered already, so i can tell results shortly. Front shocks change
made things a bit better as well.

Kalev
 


Thanks for all the info, i'd totally forgotten about the possibility of
out if balance wheels. Judging by the previous owner It's probably flat
spots on the tyres. I haven't had chance to drive it very far because
of the fact it wobbled off the road into a hedge. I will certainly take
the wheels off and sling them in the back of the 90 and drop them off
at the tyre place on the way to work. All i've got to do now is find
some disco panels and glass to replace the broken ones! Ho hum

Cheers

Dave

 
On or around 25 May 2005 13:04:54 -0700, [email protected] enlightened us
thusly:

>
>
>Thanks for all the info, i'd totally forgotten about the possibility of
>out if balance wheels. Judging by the previous owner It's probably flat
>spots on the tyres. I haven't had chance to drive it very far because
>of the fact it wobbled off the road into a hedge. I will certainly take
>the wheels off and sling them in the back of the 90 and drop them off
>at the tyre place on the way to work. All i've got to do now is find
>some disco panels and glass to replace the broken ones! Ho hum



Had a nice wobble in the recently-acquired minibus, which I attributed to a
badly-off-balance wheel. I'd swapped tyres and wheels from back to front
(there are 4 at the back). Now fitted new fatter front ones, run at lower
pressure, and dropped the rear pressures from 46 to 34, which has improved
the very harsh ride no end. I reckon the rears might stand 32, at that;
after all, there are 4 of 'em carrying the load.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards
too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was
sighted, 20th July 1588
 
Austin Shackles wrote:

> Had a nice wobble in the recently-acquired minibus, which I attributed to a
> badly-off-balance wheel. I'd swapped tyres and wheels from back to front
> (there are 4 at the back). Now fitted new fatter front ones, run at lower
> pressure, and dropped the rear pressures from 46 to 34, which has improved
> the very harsh ride no end. I reckon the rears might stand 32, at that;
> after all, there are 4 of 'em carrying the load.


What sort of minibus did you get Austin?


--
EMB
 
On or around Thu, 26 May 2005 10:22:47 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> Had a nice wobble in the recently-acquired minibus, which I attributed to a
>> badly-off-balance wheel. I'd swapped tyres and wheels from back to front
>> (there are 4 at the back). Now fitted new fatter front ones, run at lower
>> pressure, and dropped the rear pressures from 46 to 34, which has improved
>> the very harsh ride no end. I reckon the rears might stand 32, at that;
>> after all, there are 4 of 'em carrying the load.

>
>What sort of minibus did you get Austin?


's an LDV convoy, the latest incarnation of the sherpa... ford engine and
'box, same ones as the transit.

It does actually have 4 driven wheels... sadly the 4x4 transit I had me eye
on had been sold. Still, this one has fewer miles, and is newer, and was
cheaper...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
from Mein Kampf, Ch 10
 
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