Wing Alignment

Brandog · Dec 27, 2020

Had a search on the forum but couldn’t find anything specific to my problem.

Took the grill surround off this morning as it’s due a paint job (last owner decided to paint everything by hand with a yard broom) and noticed that the N/S wing sticks forward about 15mm more then the O/S wing.

I’ve included some photos to try and show what I mean. It’s completely out of whack and makes the front end look twisted.
In one photo I laid a straight edge in line with the bumper bolts to show the size of the gaps on each side.

Is there anyway to adjust this?

jamesmartin · Dec 27, 2020

if you slacken bumper bolts theres a lot of movement with the bumper

Brandog · Dec 27, 2020

jamesmartin said:
if you slacken bumper bolts theres a lot of movement with the bumper

Thanks for the super quick reply!
I had considered that but the gap happens on the chassis before the bumper if that makes sense. Look at the pics with the tape measure.

jamesmartin · Dec 27, 2020

look at the bulkhead/chassis bolts has one side more spacer washers

Brandog · Dec 27, 2020

jamesmartin said:
look at the bulkhead/chassis bolts has one side more spacer washers

Sorry to sound like a total newbie but where exactly are they located?
Do you have a photo of them?

cheers

jamesmartin · Dec 27, 2020

Brandog said:
Sorry to sound like a total newbie but where exactly are they located?
Do you have a photo of them?

cheers

under the bulkhead were it meets the chassis outriggers,bottom corners in the pic

Brandog · Dec 27, 2020

jamesmartin said:
under the bulkhead were it meets the chassis outriggers,bottom corners in the pic
View attachment 226083

If I’m looking at the right bits they seem to look the same on both sides.

Offside:

Near side:

Any other suggestions?

Hicap phill · Dec 27, 2020

What about between the out rigger & the bulkhead?

Brandog · Dec 27, 2020

After getting down there and having a look though I did just notice that these brackets are spaced differently on each side but I’m not sure if that has anything to do with the wings?

Offside:

Near side:

Al2O3 · Dec 28, 2020

Brandog said:
After getting down there and having a look though I did just notice that these brackets are spaced differently on each side but I’m not sure if that has anything to do with the wings?

Offside:
View attachment 226089
Near side:
View attachment 226088

This is where James Martin and Hicap phil mean.

This is where the bulkhead A pillar (red bit) bolts to the front outriggers. You can see the long bolt holding it all together. Spacer washers are used to alter the lateral position of the bulkhead to get the shut line gaps correct for the doors. Because the wings bolt directly to the front of the bulkhead this will also alter the position of your wings. You might have more washers in one side compared to the other. In this picture my wings and outer sills aren't attached and so you will not have such a clear view. You will need to get underneath with a torch to be able to see. It'll be full of crap too probably. That's quite a difference to be accounted for by the spacer washers.
The brackets you have shown are used to create a 'triangulation' support to the bulkhead. They could be slightly out so one side of the bulkhead is being pushed back and the other pulled forward? These are the two factors that could be compounding to cause the problem. Assuming no crash damage?

Brandog · Dec 28, 2020

Al2O3 said:
This is where James Martin and Hicap phil mean.
View attachment 226282
This is where the bulkhead A pillar (red bit) bolts to the front outriggers. You can see the long bolt holding it all together. Spacer washers are used to alter the lateral position of the bulkhead to get the shut line gaps correct for the doors. Because the wings bolt directly to the front of the bulkhead this will also alter the position of your wings. You might have more washers in one side compared to the other. In this picture my wings and outer sills aren't attached and so you will not have such a clear view. You will need to get underneath with a torch to be able to see. It'll be full of crap too probably. That's quite a difference to be accounted for by the spacer washers.
The brackets you have shown are used to create a 'triangulation' support to the bulkhead. They could be slightly out so one side of the bulkhead is being pushed back and the other pulled forward? These are the two factors that could be compounding to cause the problem. Assuming no crash damage?

Hi mate thanks for your informative reply.
I found the spacers you were talking about, used a wire brush on my drill and cleaned away the crud to expose the washers and from what I can see it looks like 5 washers on each side.

Does that rule out the bulkhead bolts then if they’re equally spaced on each side?

Where would you suggest I look to next?

mick 1986 · Dec 29, 2020

Brandog said:
Hi mate thanks for your informative reply.
I found the spacers you were talking about, used a wire brush on my drill and cleaned away the crud to expose the washers and from what I can see it looks like 5 washers on each side.

Does that rule out the bulkhead bolts then if they’re equally spaced on each side?

Where would you suggest I look to next?

Has it had new outriggers welded on at some point? Just because the spacers are equal, doesn’t mean the bulkhead is perpendicular to the chassis.

I’m not sure where to look next, unless it’s had dumb irons welded on in the past?

flat · Dec 29, 2020

It’s a hand built vehicle on a ladder chassis, I would say that amount of difference isn’t bad

What the rest of the vehicle alignment like? Roof, door shut lines, tub alignment etc? Anything else not ‘quite right’?

Brandog · Dec 29, 2020

mick 1986 said:
Has it had new outriggers welded on at some point? Just because the spacers are equal, doesn’t mean the bulkhead is perpendicular to the chassis.

I’m not sure where to look next, unless it’s had dumb irons welded on in the past?

As far as I’m aware it hasn’t. They look old enough to be original but then again it is 31 years old so a lot can happen over the years!

What are dumb irons and where would I look for those? Sorry to sound like a dumb iron

Brandog · Dec 29, 2020

flat said:
It’s a hand built vehicle on a ladder chassis, I would say that amount of difference isn’t bad

What the rest of the vehicle alignment like? Roof, door shut lines, tub alignment etc? Anything else not ‘quite right’?

Don’t get me wrong I’m not looking for perfection! But a difference of 15mm on one side does draw your attention to it so if I can help reduce that even by a few mil that would be something

To be honest I’d have no idea where to start checking those things, I did measure the rear cross member against the body and it’s bang on in the middle.
Is there a guide on how to check alignments?

Thanks

doriz · Dec 29, 2020

Have you got a image that articulates the issue better. The lines on mine are like a derelict barn and unless it gets a professional coat of gun metal grey I’m happy.

Brandog · Dec 29, 2020

doriz said:
Have you got a image that articulates the issue better. The lines on mine are like a derelict barn and unless it gets a professional coat of gun metal grey I’m happy.

I’ve tried to show the issue as best I can in my original post. What do you want to see?

The door lines don’t seem too bad on mine, it’s just the front wings that aren’t equal. I’m not even trying to get it bang on the same, even if I could half the gap to 7/8mm I could live with that!

doriz · Dec 29, 2020

They are all close ups. What does the alignment look like at 15’ away and is that where it looks obvious?

Brandog · Dec 29, 2020

doriz said:
They are all close ups. What does the alignment look like at 15’ away and is that where it looks obvious?

I can’t show you atm as the grille surround and grille are off but when they’re on it looks worse as the grille is pulling in to the left if you’re looking at it straight on.
And if you look at it from the side you can clearly see it’s wonky.

Dragonwalker · Dec 29, 2020

Brandog said:
I can’t show you atm as the grille surround and grille are off but when they’re on it looks worse as the grille is pulling in to the left if you’re looking at it straight on.
And if you look at it from the side you can clearly see it’s wonky.

Have you checked the front hasn't had a ding and been bent. I think there's a jig diagram in the tech section. Let's ask an ex-spurt; @The Mad Hat Man

Wing Alignment

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