Will not fire after head skimmed

OK any advice? outside of the normal gallon of petrol/matches - unfortunatly I really need to get the car working.....

I have an R reg Hippo 1.8 that worked fine but was starting to loose coolent. Changed the head gasket/Timing belt/water pump - had the head skimmed now it will not fire, at all. Has compression, fuel in pistons and sparking OK on all plugs. I have double & tripple checked the timing - with No1 at 90 prior to TBC rotor arm is approaching No1 spark plug lead. The marks on both the cam sprockets have exhaust towards the exhaust and I have rechecked that the cam pins are in the correct position in the sprockets and match the Haynes manual position. Distributor cap/leads are only a few months old, plugs just replaced. Last time I change one of these it started after a couple of seconds. I have checked that all the valve followers return to their original positions after the cam has gone around - and they do - so I assume that I have not bent any valves by accident. Really do not want to have to take the head off again if it can be avoided.

Completly run out of ideas - any advice - really do need to get it running - thanks

anyone know whats the best box of matches to get........

are you sure you have inlet cam pin to inlet, and exhaust cam pin to exhaust, and are you timed to no.1 not no. 4?

Have rechecked the locating pins (with some one checking over my shoulder) and defo No1 (by cam sprockets) about to rise on its compression stroke. Inlet vales just closed and exhaust shut - thanks for the reply

Probably not much help but I was going to suggest the timing as well but on the exhaust cam, this seems to be the one that people often put on 180 degrees out. Otherwise, you haven't by accident knocked the fuel cut off switch (assuming its under the bonnet - cannot remember where it is on the Freelander) and covered the basics such as getting fuel and a spark

thanks again - I have really checked the timing - have checked fuel and spark (on all cylinders) - not even an attempt to fire. I have a 'real' mechanic who used to run Service for a big garage chain (not Land Rover) living across the road who has checked what I have done.

Does anyone know if taking it for a tow start would help - I guess not but just trying to think of something

old_freelanders said:

thanks again - I have really checked the timing - have checked fuel and spark (on all cylinders) - not even an attempt to fire. I have a 'real' mechanic who used to run Service for a big garage chain (not Land Rover) living across the road who has checked what I have done.

Does anyone know if taking it for a tow start would help - I guess not but just trying to think of something

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Yes sometimes a tow start will help after a head skim, worth a try if you are 100% on the timing, or try some easy start sprayed into the air intake.

Id av fort if it worked before and you got fuel n sparks its gotta be timing

might be a stupid question?but dont know that engine has it got hydraulic lifters?the reason i ask is on the old vauxhalls carlton cav's you sometimes had to tow start them after engine work to get pressure for lifters as cranking the engine would not do it!!

did you use a cam locking tool? recheck timing, if it cooked rings- tea spoon of oil in each bore. tow it and let clutch out in 4th-floor it and it will gradually fire.

Thanks everyone - I thought it was the timing, but I have spent the last few nights really double checking - looking at the cam positions. sprocket pin positions, rotor arm, and if No1 is coming up etc. I am even starting to wonder if the new spark plugs are working under compression - they all spark ok when checked against the casing (coil is 6 months old as well as the old one was very corroded). The car has been really good and covered about 25K in the last year with all the usual bits being changed. The engine is newer than the car with about 60K on it. I'll recheck it all tomorrow and see if I can arrange a quick tow to see if it helps at all - thanks again.

old_freelanders said:

OK any advice? outside of the normal gallon of petrol/matches - unfortunatly I really need to get the car working.....

I have an R reg Hippo 1.8 that worked fine but was starting to loose coolent. Changed the head gasket/Timing belt/water pump - had the head skimmed now it will not fire, at all. Has compression, fuel in pistons and sparking OK on all plugs. I have double & tripple checked the timing - with No1 at 90 prior to TBC rotor arm is approaching No1 spark plug lead. The marks on both the cam sprockets have exhaust towards the exhaust and I have rechecked that the cam pins are in the correct position in the sprockets and match the Haynes manual position. Distributor cap/leads are only a few months old, plugs just replaced. Last time I change one of these it started after a couple of seconds. I have checked that all the valve followers return to their original positions after the cam has gone around - and they do - so I assume that I have not bent any valves by accident. Really do not want to have to take the head off again if it can be avoided.

Completly run out of ideas - any advice - really do need to get it running - thanks

anyone know whats the best box of matches to get........

Click to expand...

There's your problem in red, cam marks should appear EXH, IN, EXH, IN, as already suggested by mantamad, 180 degrees out

See post 6 (pic attachment with shaving mirror) in link below
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f38/k-series-head-bolts-hgf-tool-info-48856.html

Weak coil probably won't help, but that will be a power issue, possibly lumpy idle

Good luck

thanks Northern Irelander - but thats what I was trying to say as in your pic No6 (nice by the way) - thanks for the help - it is all very much appreciated

Did you make any progress on this?

It should fire first time if timing is spot on, shouldn't need a tow

Thanks for asking - but been working late and too dark and P***ing down to really work on tonight - have rest of week off so will recheck eveything - I'll let you know - thanks again

Hi everyone. Took it all apart today and re did the timing from scratch just to be sure. Still not firing. Managed to track down a guy who does a lot of K series work and explained the issue. He said to check the cam followers as they can lock fully open when the cam is removed. This causes a slight gap in the valves as they never fully close. You will still experience compression but will be low so unless it is measured it could be missed.
Said he had seen this on many older engines. Well - took them all out and yep - no movement in them - currently cleaning them out and trying to get the remaining 7 to have some movement to the hydraulic tappet. Any suggestion how best to free them?

Ok figured out they just needed a good wack against a bit of wood - all cleaned and free - I'll put it all back together tomorrow and let you know

old_freelanders said:

Ok figured out they just needed a good wack against a bit of wood - all cleaned and free - I'll put it all back together tomorrow and let you know

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Good luck

humm...still will not fire up. Have tried timing both ways to check it was not 180 out. Exactly the same. What gets me is that there is no attempt to fire. Its like there is no fuel or spark (or the timing being 180 out). If I have been given the wrong timing belt (I have auto tensioner) would it fit? - not sure how much differance there is between the two. Does anyone know what the markings on the actual belt would be for an auto tensioner belt from DAYCO (the box it came in has gone) - thanks

23mm belt width for manual tensioner, 26mm width for auto tensioner.

BUT

How many teeth on your belt? 145 is correct, 143 is for VVC only.

From memory:
23 mm 143 teeth manual tensioner excl VVC
26 mm 143 teeth VVC
26 mm 145 teeth auto tensioner

Have a look hereClick

It refers to a Rover 25 but there are links within the thread showing the different versions of belt and number of teeth. I would have thought that if your belt was wrong, when starting with the engine timing marks aligned and doing a complete revolution, the marks would then be out.