Why stiffer springs for off roading. Dont make sense to me.

Cant understand why H/D springs would be needed for off road. My 110 has purple dabbed springs and theys a freakin hardride.
Surley softer springs would be better and allow more axle articulation keeping the wheels in contact with whatever you happen to be drivin on.

Perhaps its me.. mines comin off anyways and I've swapped a landy man for his standard 110 rears and I'm putting disco fronts on ta see what happens to the ride. I dont go round corners fast cause the gas cuts out so no problem there and methinks me fillings will be safer with a softer ride.

Gonna give it a go anyway, rears swapped on Wed and fronts when axle swapped which will be when I gets me stove up an runnin.

Would have thought HD springs are for carrying heavy loads not to improve off road performance. A stiffer ride might be better on road.

what he said.

Although with soft springs when you are going on uneven surfaces, esp if you are doing more than crawling speed, tend to bounce lots and hit the bump stops.

I have standard height HD springs on mine, mostly to assist with towing the caravan, but it does feel like they've improved the ride off-road too. I don't bottom out so much now, the 'bounce' is less and more progressive. Mind, when we're off-roading we generally have two adults, two kids and a ****-load of stuff in the boot ...

Green laning, when there's normally only two of us, but still a boot full of ****e, the ride is a tad harsher, but again, when it gets rutted and/or bumpy, I think the slight extra height and stiffness they give help to stop bottoming out. If I were to be mostly off-road or mostly green-laning I'd also remove the arb's, as they definitely don't help off-road, but for now it's mostly on-road so arb's left on ... for now ...

Should also say, when I swapped from Alloy wheels to Steel the extra weight really made a difference to the handling, and with the bigger/higher tyres (BFG AT 31 x 10.5 R15) clearance became a slight issue.

its bollix most lift kits are simply harder springs i spent about 2 months getting the longest softest springs i could now i run 175lbs per inch at each corner that are arrow 3 inches taller under no load opposed to 215lbs fronts and 190lbs rears it rolls like hell on corners but the off road drive is quite pleasurable it sits about an inch higher and is lovely. My springs are a bit tired now will replace them soon of thinks with the same. been in a disco fitted with a lift kit and it was terrible bone shakin the guy was convinced it was better than standard! Me thinks not it x.ill amaze you what new springs are like over 10 year old tired springs most discos defenders are 10 or even 20 years old the springs will be shot for sure unless they have been regularly replaced Jai

landowner said:

Cant understand why H/D springs would be needed for off road. My 110 has purple dabbed springs and theys a freakin hardride.
Surley softer springs would be better and allow more axle articulation keeping the wheels in contact with whatever you happen to be drivin on.

Perhaps its me.. mines comin off anyways and I've swapped a landy man for his standard 110 rears and I'm putting disco fronts on ta see what happens to the ride. I dont go round corners fast cause the gas cuts out so no problem there and methinks me fillings will be safer with a softer ride.

Gonna give it a go anyway, rears swapped on Wed and fronts when axle swapped which will be when I gets me stove up an runnin.

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I think it all depends on what your driving on mate, I do a few enduros on my bike and i have to constantly adjsut the suspension and springs for the terrain im ridning on. The harder the terrain the harder the suspension, the softer the terrain softer suspension.

Mr Universe said:

I think it all depends on what your driving on mate, I do a few enduros on my bike and i have to constantly adjsut the suspension and springs for the terrain im ridning on. The harder the terrain the harder the suspension, the softer the terrain softer suspension.

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I was thinking that soft springs and very stiff shocks would be the thing for offroad.
Never been offroad ,,except on the verge when I break down , so just guessing really.

I'd imagine that hard springs are good for off road speed competitions like comp-safaries and desert racing.

fenby1976 said:

I'd imagine that hard springs are good for off road speed competitions like comp-safaries and desert racing.

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Just thinking that scrambler bikes have very soft suspension and they go pretty quick over the bumps.

A lot of it's to do also with unsprung weight. Crossers have very light wheels that need to move quickly ... Landrovers have a lot of unsprung weight that doesn't move quickly, so heavier springs control this heavier weight better.

Dampers stop the springs rebounding, so ideally would match the springs.

Balance is all, though. Matching front to rear and each side is most important. When I first got HD springs I got them very heavy, to suit a winch at the front and heavy loads at the back ... this was too much as although I carry lots of kit it isn't really heavy, and I don't have a winch. Since I swapped them for for Medium weight Heavy Duty all round the vehicle sits better, responds better, tows better and is a more balanced package for all the driving we do. In more general terms though, soft is better for slow off-road, faster you want to go, the stiffer you want to be ...

landowner said:

Just thinking that scrambler bikes have very soft suspension and they go pretty quick over the bumps.

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I see what you mean but I suppose there is a quite a difference in dynamics between a bike and a big 4x4 because the rider of a motorbike can use their arms and legs to absorb the big hits and also shift their weight around to change the balance. On a 4x4 the suspension has to do all the work, so if it's too soft it will bottom out too easily, roll and pitch too much when going at high speeds. If you sit down on a dirt bike over big bumps it will bottom out quite easily.

See if the landy is sitting on soft springs and you go over some even slightly uneven ground you will end up with your head through the roof and your dog out the window as the springs will just let it go all over the place.

Harder springs will give in uneven ground but maintain a much firmer stance, and will improve offroad handling and on road adhesion.

When I went from standard springs to HD it was amazing the difference.

discomania said:

See if the landy is sitting on soft springs and you go over some even slightly uneven ground you will end up with your head through the roof and your dog out the window as the springs will just let it go all over the place.

Harder springs will give in uneven ground but maintain a much firmer stance, and will improve offroad handling and on road adhesion.

When I went from standard springs to HD it was amazing the difference.

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Surley softer springs would allow the wheels to follow the terrain more easily, only ejecting the dog through the window if excessive speed was used.
The shocks surley would stop the springs from throwing the vehicle all over the place at speed, unless they are 20 years old of course

Being an old person I have no need of on road adhesion as I dont go fast enough in the landy, I get nose bleeds over 45 mph so standard springs it is for me on the back and Disco on the front....

Have a read of this and all will become clear

http://mathinsite.bmth.ac.uk/pdf/msdtheory.pdf

fenby1976 said:

Have a read of this and all will become clear

http://mathinsite.bmth.ac.uk/pdf/msdtheory.pdf

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**** me took one look at that and I was off!:bolt:

What the ****s that got to do with a Landy negotiating a ploughed field

If ya want ta go like a bat out of hell across rough terrain with diff locks
then yes, but stiff springs wont keep the wheels down when crossing rough ground in a liesurly manner, they reduce axle articulation (x = 4 x 4 / 2 x 27% x mud) double that if it's rainin

I studied that stuff about 6 years ago and it hurt my brain so badly that it decided to forget most of it, but what I do seem to remember is that for a vehicle of a given mass travelling at a given speed over a surface with a sinusoidal cross section (like a ploughed field) of particular amplitude and wavelength there is an optimum spring and damper rate that will allow the vehicle to travel in perfect comfort. As you increase the speed you need higher spring and damper rates to achieve the perfect comfort level. In practice vehicle spring and damper systems are a compromise because they have to cope with all sorts of surfaces, speeds and different amounts of weight in the vehicle.