Where's my 4WD?!?

Fantastic advice everyone, thank you very much.

One, hopefully final, question, how do I remove the castellated nut?
It looks like it has flats you can fit a spanner or socket on, but do you risk breaking off the catellations?

mrwoppit said:

Fantastic advice everyone, thank you very much.

One, hopefully final, question, how do I remove the castellated nut?
It looks like it has flats you can fit a spanner or socket on, but do you risk breaking off the catellations?

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Sockets fine, it shouldn't be overly tight

Just spotted this thread. I have some of those hubs and mine needed re-greasing as one had stuck in free.

Take out the six hex bolts carefully the rim round the edge is made of some sort of crappy cheese like plastic - overtightening the bolts when you put it back on can cause the stuff to bulge and make it difficult to lock/unlock the hubs

Inside is a faily simple arrangement, there are a set of springy projections on the insde of the knob that hen you rotate it slide a souble splined slider into the hub to lock between the innner and outer splines. I'm guessing yours are stuck in the outer position.

If it proves difficult I'd take James's advice and put them on the shelf and go back to regular hubs, I couldn't measure any MPG difference with them on/off but when it gets icy and you've forgot to lock them before you set off you look a right pillock. There's no sadder sight than a Landrover trying to go crabwise up a hill and getting overtaken by chav in a corsa....

D

I am torn between repairing/replacing these with FWH, or reverting to "normal" hubs. I've read a load of views and articles on the pro's and con's of each approach and it seems to be a quasi-religious debate with no real conclusive conclusions.

I am very tempted to return to non-FWH for the simple reason that mine have already proved to be a PITA. I'm unlikely to remember to lock and unlock them regularly and the benefits of having them seem debatable.

The biggest barrier to me changing is my own confidence/ability. I have a fairly mechanical background, but not for the last 20 years or so. While I'm reasonably confident of being able to replace something I removed by more or less reversing the process, be it the same refurbed part or a new one, I'm far less confident of my ability to order the right bits and fit them properly for something entirely new, even with the parts catalog someone kindly pointed me to.

I've only had her for just over a week and I'm certain my previous, youthful certainty and ability will return in short order, for the moment sticking with what I have, even if it proves troublesome, seems the path of least potential disaster.
I'm going to make mistakes, need to repair things I've already tried to fix, screw up and get annoyed and I fully accept and in fact look forward to that, I'd just rather not do it on week two!
Month two will be far more justifiable to the other half for a start

where are you?

I'm in Oxfordshire, Didcot to be precise.

And now I'm going to head out into the cold and dark to try and strip these hubs.
Unfortunately I need it running for Saturday afternoon and am at work all day so this time of the year, with no workshop to do it in, I'm going to have to toughen up
Once I've got them off I'm going to try and clean them up and see if I can refub them. If not I should have time to order new ones.
Which is a point, if these free hubs are already knackered, would it make more sense to simply replace them rather than risk these ones going again, which must be more likely with them having done so once.

mrwoppit said:

And now I'm going to head out into the cold and dark to try and strip these hubs.
Unfortunately I need it running for Saturday afternoon and am at work all day so this time of the year, with no workshop to do it in, I'm going to have to toughen up
Once I've got them off I'm going to try and clean them up and see if I can refub them. If not I should have time to order new ones.
Which is a point, if these free hubs are already knackered, would it make more sense to simply replace them rather than risk these ones going again, which must be more likely with them having done so once.

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Chances are they just a bit of grease and occasional use

bit too far just to pop round then!
as others have said, remove the top, pull off and operate the rotary actuator. you should see the splined centre move up and down the screw. if its seized, a dose penetrating oil and work it loose. clean, regrease and before reassembling, twist the front prop (in 2wd) and get an oberver to watch the half shaft turn (the bit with the nut on) (the other wheel needs to be on the floor). then do the same to the other side.
if the halfshaft dosen't turn, it would incate a problem within the axle.

Mine had free wheeling hubs and I discovered they were playing up when I test drove her. As mine is only used some weekends, I felt the FWH's would just be a potential issue moving forward and decided to resort to normal hubs. Last thing I want to do when I turn off a relatively clear main road into a snowy / icy side road or lane is to have to get out and switch my hubs on.

Yeah, shame nrgserv, would be great but it's a bit of a drive

So, I've had a fun 90 minutes or so...

I took off the cap by undoing the 6 hex bolts. The end cap actually popped off on it's own once undone. Found out this is because the springs in the cap were under load. Picture of cap included below.

Looking into the hub it was just a complete mess of grease. Picture also included below.
Digging around with my finger in all the crap I dug out several bits of metal which were floating free in the goop. Unlikely to be a good sign.

So, I took the rest of the hub off.
I do at least now have a reasonable understanding of how these things are supposed to work. There's a ring in there which slides up and down, pushed by the springs in the cap when locked or unlocked. I assume there are also return springs below the splined ring which push it back up, but couldn't find any evidence of those :S

To cut a long story short, I cleaned the goop out of the hub as much as possible and discovered that the splined ring is totally stuck in the unlocked position. Believe me, I hit this thing with a hammer and it won't budge!
The twist on the cap is in a similar state, no way will it turn.

Both sides are in equally bad state.
I doubt the FWH have worked for years!

There is some good news though. I managed to acost a neighbour to watch the half shaft as I turned the prop and they both turn fine. So, I think this conclusively proves that the FWH are the problem. *crosses fingers*

Interestingly, there was no bolt in the end of the half shaft. There's a hole for one, but nothing there.

So, I think based on my "heavy engineering" approach to trying to get the splined ring to move I can conclude that these FWH are buggered beyond redemption.

I've included a picture of the end of the half shaft below. I'm certain they are 24 spline, but can someone please confirm that for me? Just for the sake of my sanity and my other half not tutting disapprovingly when I buy the wrong bits :S

I'm pretty sure that these are the ones I want:

RTC8163 - FREE WHEEL HUBS 24 SPLINE - Series 3 Parts


Thanks for all the advice, info and encouragement, it's VERY much appreciated!

those are 24 spline hubs/shafts

there doesn't appear to be anything missing, i can see the lock pin and castellated nut (they're strange nuts on the 24spline shafts, i had to make one once for a mate so don't lose them)

i'd still clean those up with white spirits/petrol or diesel before even considering consigning them as scrap, there's only one spring (from memory) in that style of FWH and it's to push the splined bits securely together and keep them there, the bit that moves is attached to the front cover/twist piece that you have taken off and locks the outer case splines to the splines that are under the nut on the end of the halfshaft still

it'll only take half an hour to clean it up thoroughly and save yourself a sizeable sum if you can get them working again

the hubs aren't really supposed to be full of grease like that, that kind of mess is usually reserved for folks that can't be bothered to refill the swivels with EP90 (yes. i've had axles like that), a llittle grease is fine but it would usually end up mixed with EP90 after a while and then you find a black slurry/oily mess ooze out when you take off the hubs

edit

just reread your post and you say there's no bolt in the end of the halfshaft, no there isn't as yours have the castellated nut holding the intermediate splined piece on the halfshaft, i've only seen that bolt on one pair of halfshafts, they came out of a lightweight axle

remove the split pin, remove the nut.
pull the centre of the free wheeling hub off the halfshaft.
buy a standard driveflange, replace over halfshaft, replace nut and split pin.
put the free wheeling hub outer and inner unit on the shelf in the garage for a later date.

oh, clean the cak out before rebuilding with stadard flanges, and use a new flange gasket and cap.

would guess at 10 spline shafts, but count em' when you get the fwh centre off.

Nitemare has it spot on, 24 spline and the rest as he says

I'm frustratingly close to having this sorted thanks to the superb assistance and advice from you guys. Just a couple more stupid questions...

I've stripped off the old hubs and had a go at cleaning them up. They are still stuck so I've got some new (AVM) ones.
I'll hang on to the old ones and try to free them up so I have spares, but this can be a longer term project, indoors in inclement weather with my other half moaning at me about getting grease everywhere and stinking up the house

Now, I'm thinking I need to clean up the half shafts a little so I can re-grease them. Is it OK to clean the shafts and splines off with white spirit?
The new FWH say you shouldn't grease anything as they are self lubed, but I would have thought a very light smear of grease on the splines at least would be sensible, no?

The new ones come with fitting instructions which insist that I fit the castellated nut, split pin and felt seal (?!?!?) that came with the kit rather than use the existing ones.
Really? I don't have a felt seal on there at the moment as far as I can see, unless it has become fossilised :S.
I don't see why the hubs wouldn't fit on to my half shafts as they are (once cleaned up a bit). I'm all for fitting fresh parts but this new castellated nut is round, so won't fit a socket or spanner and I don't have a tool that will do the job :S

If you are cleaning all the crap off your old hubs, I would use a bath of paraffin.

When reassembling them, a smear of Copper-Slip on all the moving parts is ideal.

I had one of the round type of castellated nuts, and only tightened it as far as I could by hand before inserting the split pin. This allows a slight amount of longitudinal play through the spline. They lasted me many years before I sold the Landy with no later problems.

the old felt washer may never have been replaced, fit your new one as directed, a little smear of grease won't hurt

once refitted try filling your swivels with EP90, i'm guessing the seals are going to be leaky

actually, photo both your chromes (front and back of them) and show us some pictures we might even see why there's so much grease in there, mine on my first landy were full of grease gobbed in, the chromes had rotted so bad they'd lost about 96% of the original chrome (yes only 4%ish left)

later axles didnt use felt seal

jamesmartin said:

later axles didnt use felt seal

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ok i'll accept that, always details to learn

Couple of things...

Chromes? Would be happy to take pictures if I knew what they were.

What are the swivels? Do you mean the diff?
Where are the fill plugs for the swivels?