Where the feck is my water going???

Hi,

I have a 99 1.8 petrol engine Freelander and whilst checking my fluid levels today I noticed that my expansion tank was empty. I topped it up and to my horror the water just drained away instantly in a matter of seconds. I tried once more and the same thing happened. The oil seems okay with no evidence of water contamination and there is no external water leak on the engine from what I can see. The heating system has been perfect for the last few months I've owned it and it sat rock steady just under halfway.

Do you think I've succumbed to the dreaded (and seemingly obligatory) head gasket failure or is there anything else it could be?

Any advice appreciated.

Have you checked in the inside floor to see if the heater's leaking?

Spacemonkey... said:

Have you checked in the inside floor to see if the heater's leaking?

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Yeah, its bone dry inside under all foot wells and seats so the heater must be okay. I've had another play and the sump is now definitely filling up with the water I'm putting in as the oil is now thin and runny so it looks like the head gasket has failed spectacularly. It looks like I will be carrying out a head gasket change.

Can anybody recommend a particular kit or will any MLS kit off eBay suffice?

What else should I change along the way, timing belt??

I'm also aware not to move the crank with the head removed incase the piston liners move and totally wreck the engine.

PS Does anybody know if my engine will have the manual or automatic timing belt tensioner?

Make certain it's the head gasket first mate, unless you going to do it as a precaution anyway. I had a similar fault on a 1.6 astra, it turned put to be the water pump gasket.

mick 1986 said:

Make certain it's the head gasket first mate, unless you going to do it as a precaution anyway. I had a similar fault on a 1.6 astra, it turned put to be the water pump gasket.

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Did that manifest itself as an external leak?

There is no external leak present on my engine that I can see which to me suggests that the water is draining internally into the engine as it has to be going somewhere at a fair rate of knots.

I can't think of anything else it could be. I did also find a little bit of mayonnaise on the underside of the oil filler cap.

Toffeeman said:

Did that manifest itself as an external leak?

There is no external leak present on my engine that I can see which to me suggests that the water is draining internally into the engine as it has to be going somewhere at a fair rate of knots.

I can't think of anything else it could be. I did also find a little bit of mayonnaise on the underside of the oil filler cap.

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No mate, it was internal, straight into the sump! From what I can remember the water didn't leak as quick as you described, but if I was to fill the expansion tank, leave it 20mins then go back to it, it would be empty.

mick 1986 said:

No mate, it was internal, straight into the sump! From what I can remember the water didn't leak as quick as you described, but if I was to fill the expansion tank, leave it 20mins then go back to it, it would be empty.

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sounds like a slipped liner

The Mad Hat Man said:

sounds like a slipped liner

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Oh bloody hell....I hope not!!

As far as I can see I have no choice here but to take the head off and just hope for a catastrophic failure of the head gasket. At least I can fix that.

Will a slipped liner be obvious to spot?

Earlier in the day before I noticed the water problem the engine was spluttering at idle on the driveway so this (I assume) is linked to a loss of compression from hopefully a fecked head gasket. I suppose a slipped liner would also cause compression issues as well though.

Why not remove the plugs in turn and see if there is any evidence to support a problem?

You sure it isn't leaking from the back, at the inlet manifold? Can be difficult to see it leaking as the undertray stops you spotting the leak. Coolant will leak fast there as well, as you've described.

matches?

WSLR said:

Why not remove the plugs in turn and see if there is any evidence to support a problem?

You sure it isn't leaking from the back, at the inlet manifold? Can be difficult to see it leaking as the undertray stops you spotting the leak. Coolant will leak fast there as well, as you've described.

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I plan to check the plugs first thing before ripping the engine apart.

I can see the engine tray from the inside and there is definitely no sign of any water present. There is no eternal leak anywhere and no water either under the vehicle or on the engine tray. It seems to be draining away inside the engine. I can't hear any gargling or draining away of the water which makes finding the leak that much harder.

rusty plug a give away

Okay....now I'm confused!!

I thought I'd check a few things on my engine before getting too drastic and start ripping it apart.

I thought I'd check the 4 cylinders first for any signs of coolant. Three out of the four spark plugs were not very tight maybe explaining the slight misfire I mentioned earlier that I thought was compression related. The four pots were clean and dry and all the plugs were also clean and dry and all the same colour indicating good combustion.

I have also noted how some other people with a similar problem have put gallons of water in their expansion tank over a couple of days whereas I only put in a couple of litres or so. I decided to put another tank full of water in and the bloody level stayed there!! It didn't drain away at all. The runny looking oil on my dipstick I assumed was watered down is semi-synthetic and therefore a little runnier than normal mineral so maybe I was looking for an explanation where there wasn't one. The mayonnaise I found under the cap i'm still not sure about, maybe it was just condensation from some of the cold nights around here recently.

As it stands all fluid levels are okay and the engines starts and idles perfectly well. I left it at idle on the driveway and it got up to temperature and idled fine.

I'm not sure where the water went in such a short amount of time as I keep an eye on the fluid levels as its a necessity on this particular engine more than most.

Any ideas??

I think you need to pressure test the cooling system.

If you are going to do this yourself, get one of those Laser Tools land rover kits you can get for about 70 Pounds from eBay.

There is a long Technical Service Bulletin in the Freelander 1 Cooling System section on the Land Rover TOPIx site - TOPIx - TOPIx - outlining all the tests for problems like this on the K Series engine.

IIRC, they suggest a test pressure of 1.5 Bar so don't be put off by the 1 Bar cap you've got on the reservoir. Saying that, I'd expect something to give way at that pressure, but at least you'll find the weak point in the system.

Good luck.

Don't buy a pressure test kit, do a google search on building your own. It cost a bloke on another forum, about £15 to make his own.

FFS it is on here if yu can be bothered to search.

It using water could well be a sign of impending HGF, keep a close eye on it and change it at the first hint of trouble. I found that mine was sporadically using water beforehand. Make sure you change the oil rail and fit the PRRT too, this will make it much less likely to happen in future.