What do I need to worry about when buying a classic Range Rover?

Hello,

I am new to the forum and to range/land rovers in general. I have always wanted a 4x4, and looking around a classic range rover answered several criteria for me! A classic car, a 4x4 and a little bit of a project.

From what I have learnt so far, I need to look for corrosion in the chassis and out riggers. Gear box faults, power steering pumps, wrongly matched wheel/tyre combinations, transfer box problems, liners in the engine becoming porous.

I have 'worked' on various cars before, and I will often go down to the breakers to get parts. Are the breakers out there just for Rangies? Or will I just have to chance it at regular breakers?

Finally, I will be hugely interested in using LPG. Would people advise getting a range rover that already has the kit fitted, or fit it myself (luckily one of my fathers friends does it for a living, so I will be fully supported). If I am looking at LPG fitted range rovers, what would I have to look out for? Does it cause long term damage to the engine, or are they all good? I have heard of people that have converted yank V8's to LPG, and they have burnt out valves and thus caused themselves real problems with the top end of the enginge. Any help woul be beneficial

Regards Ural Boo

RUST- sills, boot floor, inner wings, chassis itself is rarely bad. you won't find one thats perfect & its simple to weld compared to some cars (i'm thinking the inner sills on an old 635 bmw my mate is doing now)

3.5's don't slip liners/go porous

parts are pretty much the easiest of any classic car- loadsa cheap new bits on the net (I hardly ever buy used but watch for some ****part crap) & s/h on eblag

zf autobox is strong but really don't like being revved in P or N. check it shifts up from first nicely when COLD

good luck

:welcome2:

uralboo said:

What do I need to worry about when buying a classic Range Rover?

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Well I WAS going to say "Your Sanity!"
But thought I'd go check your profile, becouse the username URalBob intregued me and I wondered if you may be one of our Ukranian Land-Rovering loons......
And I read this:-

Interests
Eastern bloc motorcycles, Maintenance and riding (in that order!)

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Having experienced the delights of those ex-wiermach BMW R65's made in the former Soviet Union............ I think we can conclude that buying a Range rover is quite possibly a 'Sensible' idea in comparison!
I read on;

Occupation
Work with adults with learning disabilities

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So dropping in here during your liesure time will be a bit of a bus-mans holiday then.......
OK, down to business........
Rust, Rust..... MORE rust..... and if you find something without any......... be VERY suspiciouse!
Classics er..... rust!
Trouble is, they have an aluminium skin, and most of the bits that rust hide behind the ali.
What you have to do is look at the 'usual areas' and use that as a guide for how much is lurking behind panels.
Bonets go on the front lip, usually the nearside where the catch is. This is easily flatted back, filled and sprayed over, so open the bonnet, and look at the metal behind, particularly the 'lip'..... if you ask 'What lip'..... then chances are its rusted away!
Next look at the tail-gates. Upper one will almost certainly have been replaced.... if it hasn't it will be a tissue thing membrane of ferrouse oxide around the edge of the glass...... A good tell-tale is that the rubber seal along the bottom gets pushed out by rust, and to get the tail gate to close and latch without popping open, the seal gets removed.... next trick is that the covers on the inside of the lower frame that cover the latch rods get removed as the rust starts to let the frame bend and they start fouling on the latching mechanism.
Bottom tail-gates, go at the bottom lip and in the step above the number-plate, particularly around the numberplate lamps..... again, often flatted back and filled, give everything in that area a good poking!
Next, open the back doors..... look at the catch peg poking out next to the seat, at the top of the wheel arch...... you SHOULDN'T be able to see the wheel through any orafice there! Though you probably will, OR you will see a chunk of filler, or worse, badly matched paint! Its within 12cm or whatever the regs say of the rear seat-belt achorage, so MOT fail point. Rot usually extends right the way back from there to the seat-belt anchorage, so poke around well from underneath.
STILL with the back door open, work your way down the wheel arch to the body sill. The wheel arch should actually join the outer sill, just before the main box section..... few do.
THEN trace the sill all the way under the front door to the front wheel-arch. There is a plastic cover on the outer sill, and that will normally be covering a multitude of sins.
The bottom of the door pillars usually go west, and the bottom of the sill and the inner sill face too. You cant easily get to those, but stab the bottom of that sill to find out how dead it is, with a pen-knife or similar.
Check around the front footwells from underneath..... and while there, poke and prod the out-riggers and body-mounts, and the inner wing into the engine bay.....
NEXT into the boot, you cant easily lift the rear carpet, and you cant get at it from underneath, becouse the petrol tank is in the wat, but you CAN get a little way under the carpet from the side where the tools are stored, opposite the spare wheel..... have a feel about for holes edges or big blisters of rust........
Rusty Range rovers are NOT lost causes..... unless it is the chassis....... but what you dont want is a rusty rangie that's had its rust 'hidden'; you want to know about it, so you can do something about it.
Sills can be cut out and replaced for about £200, cheaper if you do your own welding. Rear wheel-arches, likewise, perhaps £100 worth ion there. Boot-Floor, depending on how bad, is a piece of string. Simplest fix, if its not too bad is a sheet of aluminium pop-rioveted onto the steel 'ribs' if they are still there.
Bonnet and tail-gate CAN be plated, if you cant find a better second hand one..... upper tail-gates are like hens teeth in good nick, and will set you back probably £100-£150 IF you can get hold of one. New replacement from LR is over £400, but you can get after-market aluminium frames for about £200-£250......
Think that pretty much covers the body work........
Underneath, chassis, will probably have some evidence of corrosion, but it shouldn';t be red rusty and shouldn't have holes! Again, look for patches and repairs, a good honest car can be fixed, one that's been botched a night-mare undoing works done and putting them to rights!
Suspension wise, Rangies 'wibble', its hard to describe, but they should ride smoothly and give a sort of 'shiver' on bumps, if they wallow or roll about DONT be lead to believe that's 'Just' the long travel off-road suspension, they DONT.... they should feel firm and controlled, for all they are soft. Springs shouldn't sag, and nothing should move if you give it a good tug!
Avoid motors that have been given a 'lift'; cheapest way is with spacer blocks under the springs, or some-times under the body mounts; others use longer springs and the better ones use longer dampers and extended brake lines to suit.....
Modified motors are a nightmare; and you are NOT likely to find a 'good' one. If they were any good, seller would be unlikely to be getting rid! Most modded cars on sale are on sale becouse they have made a mess of them, or they are clapped out! So you are likely to be buying trouble!
Lifted cars have geometry issues on teh steering and prop-shafts, and can handle from 'a bit wiered' to 'bloody dangerouse', while wearing themselves out at an accelerated rate......
AND the reason they have been lifted, will usually be so that they can be hammered even harder off-road..... so they will have had a hard life.
WORST 'mod' in my opinion is 'poly-bushed' suspension, fitted becouse the enthusiastic owner has knackered the original suspension off-roading and decided to 'upgrade' probably fitted a lift kit to replace sagged springs and clapped out dampers sat on hammered to bits bushes..... so a complete 'kit' goes on complete with hard poly-bushes.... which then mean that instead of the bushes taking the knocks, they all get passed to the bracketry on teh chassis, and things start fatige fracturing!
Avoid Avoid Avoid!
There are enough decent pampered pavement Rangies out there you do NOT need to buy yourself any more hassle than you need..... no matter HOW much 'work' they tell you has been done....... you can garantee the motor will need more!
Steering... should be light and possitive and track true....... will probably feel a bit wooly.... but should go from lock to lock nice and smoothly, and there should be a possitive 'stop' when the steering reached the limit of travel....
Should also do so without the PAS pump screaching its head off, though a little gurgling from the PAS box relief valves is acceptable.
Clamber out of the cock-pit and have a look just behind the drivers side front wheel, there should be a big black (or rusty!) iron casting hanging off the chassis rail with a lever beneath it with a rod attached heading towards the near-side wheel.
Actually there will be two rods, one though is on a fixed bracket, not a lever.... that's the 'pan-hard rod' that locates the front axle.... worth a waggle to make sure it doesn't move about.... but try and spot the other one, get some-one to waggle the steering if you can and see what moves.... becouse that is the PAS box, and they have a habbit of leaking.... look for signes of weapage there, or having been wiped away! Replacing a PAS box is a £150 job.
Also while some-one waggling the steering take good note of teh chrome balls on the end of the axle..... should be chrome...... not sort of pitted black metal! If pitted, you have a £250 axle over-haul to look forward to....
The seals CAN be replaced, but theres no point in doing it without changing the chrome balls... and while you are there you may as well do the hub bearings and seals and the CV joint, and MAYBE have a look at the diff, and NOT have to worry about it again for a long time........
Still down there in that general area, have a look at anything hanging, like the exhaust pipe; these tend to rot out at the collector before the first box, and at the tail pipe... particularly the bottom of the 'U' section over the axle..... more so if LPG converted due to added moisture in exhaust gasses.... worst on cars not used for long journeys (low milers) wqhere pipe never gets hot enough for long enough to boil all the water away.
Exhausts are NOT that expensive...... but expensive enough; full system is a good couple of hundred quid, adn its a mucky awkward job to do! And exhaust franchises WILL load the prices becouse its a Range Rover!
Up top! engine...... almmost no way of assessing how good or bad a V8 is; it should burble nicely, without making too much clattering noise! Oil should be reasonably clean, but they are often drained and re-filled before sale to mask signs of 'the black death' where they get all gunked up inside!
Better indication is how well they work; Carb engines make about 135bhp, they aren't hugely poweful, but they were fitted to more lightly equipped models; they should pull strongly and respond crisply, without belching black smoke or white smoke. Same goes for EFi's though they should tugg a bit harder, as they should have closer to 165bhp... 3.9's are a little more dosile, but offer up to 180bhp, but should still pull well.
Find a steep hill, they should go up without labouring, and If they have to change down, should do so smoothly.
If the motors dont feel too eager, then there is a whole gammut of likely maledies, starting with the ignition, working through the carburation, and ending with a dodo-motor.......
However, there are enough 'dead' rangies out there to offer up its vitals IF you find one that is completely craked.... a full DIY rebuild on a 3.5 carb engine, is about £1000 worth of work and parts..... a 'good' take out, perhaps £250.
EFi engines though do suffer; they are difficult to diagnose, and expensive to fix unless you know what you are about, and many get really mucked about with.......
If you are buying a motor already converted to LPG.... take note that they will often have been presented for MOT running on gas, and hence passed emmission controls with an engine that WOULDN'T pass on petrol, becouse of EFi fueling faults.......
Sorting an EFi properly, cam mean renewing all the injectors, and often the Air Flow Meter, and HOPe that the ECU hasn't given up for being made to work too hard for too long connected to duff and malfulctioning bits!
A lot of EFis get scrapped becouse of the practical impossibility of fixing dead EFi systems..... if they are good enough to get the car started and you run on gas, might not be a big problem.... but if they are run on gas, lack of use will see them gum up!
Gear-boxes..... auto's should shift sweetly, and the ATF oil should be a nice cherry-aid colour, and not a soprt of nutty brown.... worse dark brown or black! That means theres things breaking down t#in side that shouldn't be!
All should operate smoothly and without clunks.....

Later I think 3.9 models had the Borg chain drive transfer box with visco unit.... but that might have come in a tad before or after the 3.9 motor, I'm not sure.
This does NOT have a diff-lock, visco unit acts as an auto-locker, and it is known to sieze... there is a way to test them, but not something you can do on a sellers drive.... but find some-where you can do a tight U-turn and do it with full lock on; if the visco is a bit toght or sized you should feel the back wheels trying to 'push' the fronts.....
On either variant, make sure that Hi & Lo do actually engage, and on diff-lock models that they do lock.
Boxes should not be unduly stiff or sloppy.
Gears WILL wine, and there will always be some 'back-lash' in all the cogs in the transmission, but it shouldnt clonk and it shouldn't roll more than a couple of inches with the hand brake on when you take your foot off the foot-brake.
Later models have more electrikery and 'toys' ALL suffer sagging head-lining.... can be fixed reasonably easily, cost depends on how neat you want it to be. A New headlining is about £300, ripping the cloth off and leabving it bare, virtually free! In between, up to you!
Electric windows often dont like to work, and central locking will often have a mid of its own. Heated seats often aren't and electric seats frequently wont adjust..... electric mirrors some-times will, some-times wont!
These things will bother you or they wont. The central locking is a royal pain, becouse you end up running around the car the whole tiome trying to out-wit it just so you can leave it in a car-park! elwectric mirroes, well you can still adjust them by hand, electric adjust seats can be a pain if you cant make them move, but can be swapped for manual ones; again, plenty of donors around.....
Air-con is a nice feature to have I think, but they do load the engine and put drop your already low MPG, and they have a reputation for rotting out.
Heaters Should work..... be very sure on an LPG equipped car that it DOES!
Heat for the evaporator is taken off the heater circuit; if you dont get heat out of the heater, you may not be properly vapourising your LPG.... of it could be that the vaporiser plumbing causes the hot water to go to the vapouriser not the heater........ an electric windscreen is NOT as substitute for a working heater!
They also often leak around the footwells.... heater matrix hoses are notoriousely difficult to get at so while every other perished hose might get renewed, they probably wont.... so they leak...... on your toes! Check for squelchy carpets in the footwells!
Look at the instruments; tacho should work, speedo should work, warning lamps should stay off.
If the speedo doesn't work or is erratic, on later auto's indicates possible probs in the box as the speed sender sensor gets interfered with by crud in the ATF.
If the Tacho doesn't work or is erratic, indicates the alternator is duff or on its way out
If the Temp guage doesn't move, indicates the temp sensor duff.
Oil lamp should not flicker..... though often do if sensor on its way out or been 'knocked' very easy to pop the contacts off the top of one when doing an oil change.
Water lamop should not flicker or flash.... frequently do; usually the sender unit on the expansion tank gunked up, the wires broken, or the contacts on the spade connectors firred.....
Multitude of faults indicates wiring maledies, on which point check the fag ligyhter works. Theres an ancilliary circuit and if it gets over-loaded, like by some-one fitting a new sterio, it can knock out a whole load of stuff, and finding the fuse is nie on impossible on some models! If the cigarette lighter doesn't work, then check the sterio and see whether it STILL works when you turn the ignition off and take the key out! (Means they HAVE blown that hidden fuse and taken the feed of a battery live to get the tunes working - expect electrical gremlins!)
Kick tyres to your hearts content; they should be in good condition, hold air and have plenty of tread. A complete set of tyres will start at £200 for four remoulds and goes up from there. Part worns on rims start at about £150 and up depending on what tyres and what rims... prices in the order of £3-400 aren't untypical for 'decent' second hand rubber; £500+ for a brand new 'wheel deal'.
Brakes; abs models are a bit of a nightmare for the novice numpty to bleed, after changing the pads, often feel spongy as a result...... worst case they dont get it right and they knock out the electric boost-pump. It should 'tick' when you turn the key as it energises the system, but like an old fasioned electric fuel pump, should slow down and then turn off soon after.... if its not been bleed properly it will keep on ticking, loudly.
Abs sensors also have a habbit of getting clogged with old brake dust and iron filings off the disks... dont be too worries#d about an ABS light fault, but it will probably mean some attension needed on the brakes..... a full brake overhaul though is NOT too difficult..... time consuming and fiddly but not too hard, or too expensive; Discks are about £20 on the back, £30 on the front, they are actually cheaper than the pads! And calipers can be overhauled with new seals and pistons..... I was going to say, that the process shouldn't be unfamiliar to you as a biker.... but then remembered Djniepnr.....
Brakes....... devices that are designd to slow you down......... no...... not a side-car! A linkage which applies a friction force to a wheel in order to impede its turning......... yes that thing on the right handl-bar infront of the throttle that doesn't do very much!
Err... yeah! OK, where were we?
I dont know, woffled on long enough! Basically these things have thier quirks. They are an anathma and theres a lot of contradictions in them; they are closely related to a tractor in a lot of thier mechanics but also to a limousine in a lot of thier details and apointments!
Mechanically they will keep you as well occupied as a Neval, and are USUALLY about as difficult to get to grips with.
Rust is the big bug-bear... but not unsurmountable, as said, better to get one you can see or assess the level of canker, rather than having to guess round cover-ups and botches.
End of the day, there are LOADs of these things about; you'll never find a perfect example, but there are plenty of good ones about, so bide your time, and go for as good as you can get.
Dont buy anythig without an MOT, you dont have to. Avoid 'Projects' Modified vehicleas or ones sold as 'easy fix'.... they NEVER are!
You should be able to pick up a straight Classic with T&T on it for around £500, and a 'good' one for under £2k.
At around a grand, you have pretty much choice, and slightly earlier cars, before they were distracted by the Disco or had to play second fiddle to the P38, seem to have been better made, and be holding up better than the later ones.
Figure repairs into your buy budget; they will all need something doing to them; but sounds like thats half the appeal to you; just pick the stuff you are happiest to do.
As for LPG its great. Both my 3.9's run on the stuff; I have an open loop system on Jaqui, and a closed loop system on Honey, both 1991 pre-cat four door auto's.
I'm easy on the throttle, and get good mpg from them; figures vary hugely, but 17/18mpg wouldn't be untypical. On LPG that's about equivilent to a TDi Disco miles per £, but unleash the beat in that V8 though, and you can get silly figures!
My preference has been to buy converted; simple reason a lot easier cheaper to buy a converted car than try and buy an unconverted one, and then find a bargain second hand conversion kit.... and on both my motors I have a pro-converters cart plate that makes life a bit simpler.
DIY fitting a kit isn't to onoerouse, and you say you have an expert on hand; but a brank new conversion kit will be around £700's worth of parts...... and then you could do with the certificate of installation.
If you got a second hand kit, and your mate can help you recondition it, make it good and fit it up well, AND get you a cert...... I dont know that you'd actually save much money, for all the effort......
I think I'd still look for one ready done..... again, plenty out there!
Best of luck...... oh and commiserations on your forthcoming nuptuals! (you know that sex after marriage is rationed, dont you?! apparently there's a law or something........)

what else can you say to that answer. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bloody hell, lets hope he actually remembers to read this!

one awesome post! atf does go brown with age- if it smells burnt or has tiny metal dusty bits then theres trouble. cheapo exhausts are £60 on paddocks, ok they're not great but the ones I've bought fit ok

if the efi dies, carb it (my current job!)

best just to print teflon's post and take that with you when looking at a car!!!

personally I'd copyright & publish it!

FFS teflon that took a bit but righton dude.

Having restored (almost) a '90 efi 18 months ago I agree with everything Teflon says. What a guy! Plus...front inner wheel arches tend to go too. There's a plastic inner wheelarch held on with plastic rivets. look for crusty bits around these, if they're still there. Also the front panel behind the headlamps can get very holey.

My 12 month marathon restoration started out as a "quick check over before the MoT"
If I'd been really sensible I'd have checked everything first as per Teflons list and probably scrapped it but after replacing one sill with 5mm box section I felt I had to keep going and do the lot. Everything Teflon said was rusty, plus hard to get at bits of the chassis crossmember which were only revealed after I took the boot floor and petrol tank out.

Good point though is all the rotten bits are mainly flat plate which can
easily be welded.

If you haven't driven a RRC before you should be aware how little impression of speed you get sitting high up with the V8 just burbling away happily to itself. On the motorway it's very easy to find yourself doing 90 plus before you know it!

Good luck if you decide to get one.

Bob

Nice answer, copied & pasted for future reference.

For what its worth..... look out for a clunk on acceleration from standstill on RRC's with Borg Warner gearbox (after '89 i believe) due to chain slip...mines done 150K and now needs replacing.

90mph? you need to inspect ya wagon.mine does that in 3rd(or used to till i took out the engine)
The wagon will easile acheive 140mph with a few alterations...

Cuh..........only 140........i remember whe....only jokin.
I think that i would rather do anything than either 140 in a classic (Allegedly) or need to read all of that post.
Fair play to both of you !!

WOW! Thanks for that all really useful info! I can weld, so I should be ok with most of that. I was planning on spending between 1.5 to 2 grand. So the premium is buying honest, and the best I can, rather than a tarted up one.

I'll also take the info on the LPG. I'll buy pre-converted. If it's not cert'ed, does it mean that I don't get cheap tax etc? It is all new to me!

I have read elsewhere that I should avoid schutz/undersealed RR. As they are hiding sins. I just want a 'tidy' RR, to run to work and back in (under 6 miles), and do the odd car show and day trip. It does'nt have to be concourse. Thank you for all of the great hints and tips. I will indeed make a list from Mr Teflon's post and take it with me to a prospective car buying.

My usual type of transport is indeed eastern Bloc bikes, and old VW vans, so I'm used to the majority of the 'character' traits are mentioned.

Thank you all, for welcoming me and sharing your obvious wealth of knowledge!

Oh and mileage! How many miles can I expect to get out of an engine. Usually, its more important to look out for looked after cars, same for RR?

When are the big engine services due? I forgot these earlier:doh:

With your budget, you could be looking at some of the last cars made, but personally I would look for older and cheaper ones
Ones given coil springs by the factory rather than air bags, that often give grief and get replaced with couls that aren't really suited to the suspension set up..
I've just aquired myself another 1991 3.9 Auto. Completely shot sills, and steering box, but near full Test. £600.....
Seller reckoned it had had the rear arches plated with stainless.... I stuck a pen-knife in the patch and pronounced it filler! He agreed! Got it home, stripped it back.... under 3/4" of Davids was INDEED stainless plate! You occassionally win some!
Had a pro-fitted LPG system on it.... a 'feature' I pointed out was worth little, as he couldn't get the damn thing to run on the stuff! Had a little fiddle..... stripped the stepper mixer valve, and Whey-Hey! Off she went like a good'n!
Steering box will be tackled in due course, swapped out with the reconditioned one I put on my other Rangie that's now on SORN...... Have steel arriving this week so I can tackle the sills on the week-end.

That's what mine looked like behind the plastic covers!
But for the most part, mine's a pretty 'honest' car. And I picked the jobs I knew I could most happily contend with. So, While I am spending money on metal to make good the sills, I've not got to fret about messed up 'lectrics or crazy central locking..... and the Swivils are near perfect, but bonus is the rear tailgates are rot-free!
In your case, a similar motor would probably be a good choice; something with faults, but ones you can address in your own time. Post '93 as mentioned the factory got distracted by disco's and P38's and build quality suffered, so the earlier cars seem to be holding up a bit better in a lot of cases.
Really, its up to you to think on whether you want an earlier car or a later one. Up to 1983, they had the vertical slat radiator grill, and not a lot of equipment. 3.5l engines and carburettors.
I had one of the 'change over' models before, an 84 3.5 Auto, with the rare 3-speed Chrysler gearbox. Loverly car, and a joy to work on. Had the brooklands spoiler and horizontal rad grill, but beige interior and wind up windows!
Two I have now are both later ones, and have such luxuaries as air conditioning, electric mirrors and windows, and in one of them at least one heated seat!
Really the choice is, if you want a 'Classic' classic buy early, if you want the luxuaries and dont mind it not being authentic, go for a later one.
But, with so many around, I'd NOT be keen to part with my money, and certainly not a big chunk of it JUST for the car.
Answering some Q's about the engine; they will run to quarter mil miles or more..... but they are such a 'tolerant' engine, most get neglected and suffer in consequence. Anything from about 90K onwards you can expect them to start developing faults, and if they haven't had thier oil changed frequently, they do suffer accelerated wear.
I've completely, and properly reconditioned a V8 before now; it Is fun..... but having started off JUST going to 'do' the head-gasket, and a thousand pounds later been looking at this:-

I'd not be in a hurry to open another!
I'd just swap it out for a take out from another Rangie!
NOT that I'd expect the substitute to be in MUCH better nick..... but as long as it kept the wheels turning!
Some suggest that its worth wipping the inlet and valley gasket of them, scooping out as much black gloop as you can, and fitting new lifters, new rocker arms, and new timing gears and chain......
It IS...... and it isn't!
there's NOT much more in there to take out and mess with.... so IF I was going to do it..... I'd do it 'properly again'..... and in fact, its one of the reasons I've two Rangies...... decission was that I'd get the 'new' one so that I had a serviceable motor in the short term, and could 'prepare' little assemblies in my own time, either to go in this one if needed, or to 'renovate' the other one if she dont!
Bit like Nevals, and Honda CX500's Rangies SEEM to come in pairs!
For you; I dont know. Early on, I'd plan a thorough service; oil double flushed with LOTS of deturgent, and new filters. New plugs, leads, dizzy cap, rotor arm, coil if I felt like it, and if a points motor, points and condenser.
You may like to tackle the timing set, and POSSIBLY the hydraulic tappets and rocker arms..... they DO make a difference to the way the car behaves, both ecconomy, power and throttle response......
But more urgently, I'd haul all the hoses and renew them and the clips and the thermostat, including the ones for the heater! And a new radiator * water pump aren't a bad investment either..... most engine rebuilds start with a popped head gasket..... normally caused by a lack of cooling.
If doing THAT an electric fan is a good idea as well. Standard fan is a viscouse unit on the end of the water-pump. Effective, but they normally sieze, and they make a heck of a racket! Sound like a turbo-prop cargo plain on the pan!
A 'Kenlow' or similar improves warm up time, particularly useful if on Gas, and makes them a bit quieter.
As for service intervals; depends on use; if you dont do 'normal' miles, then they actually need more frequent servicing, becouse they have a habbit of gumming up. I dont know what the book is and I cant be bothered to go fetch it off the dining table! I'd reccomend an oil & filter change twice a year, and adjust to suit your use.
On gas, LPG likes the ignition in tip top fettle, so that's worth checking more frequently, but again, depends on the car; if its a points motor, could be something you want to check almost every week! If an EFi then probably only when you do an oil change!
On the topic of LPG, certificates and Tax...... the only tax break you get for converting is in the lower duty on the fuel you buy.
Converting an old Rangie to LPG doesn't effect its Road Fund Excise rate one jot... you still pay full wack, currently £180 a year.
And the Certificate of instalation is usually only of concern to the insurance companies, or scrutineers if you enter it for RTV trials or anything, and even then, many dont worry, if you can assure them it is 'proffessionally fitted' and an installers plate helps back that up.
One thing I'm not too sure of is the conjestion charge; LPG vehicles are SUPPOSED to be excempt from it, but theres something wampy about that too. I think that your car has to be on thier data-base, either as a 'duel fuel' car from the manufacturer, or one converted under governmnet scheme; was something about having to 'apply' for excemption on specific veichles, but I dont know if that's true or how it would work.... I dont go into london!

Cool, thanks for that!

More questions. My family friends are all in the motor trade (either 'sickles, cars, vans, lorries, mobile cranes or tractors), and most folk have a lot of respect for the venerable Rover V8. Are there differences (other than injection/carbeetooters) between uses? i.e Rover P series, SD etc? I'm guessing that there are in cams etc, to move the power around as per application. As I am a shameless town person (although I live in the countryside per se, I don't plan to get it muddy) would it impact my RR if I used a SD engine or similar. I happen to know of one with auto-box that has been fully re-conned by someone I trust. It is going for a song, and I think that I might buy it! But only if it will suit the application. I'd jus bolt -on the ancillaries, and get going. However, if this will mean no top end or no acceleration I won't bother, as I'll just repair the engine I get as time goes on.
Kerry (the friend I spoke of earlier) would help with bolting the LPG kit to the re-conned engine.

How does the Air suspension work? Is there a compressor running off the engine, and work in a similar fashion to hydro-lastic suspension on Citroen's, so dependant on what gear/speed you are doing change vehicle height?

The rust is similar to issues encountered in the heater channels in VW beetles.
Easy to hide with filler, and very troublesome to repair, without whipping the whole lot apart.

As far as stuff coming in pairs, I would agree, I have 2 bikes (CZ 250 2 stroke and A ural) and at any given moment one will work! Tag team if you will.

Head gaskets! My favourite! I seem to be doing my Fiancee's twin sisters head gasket every other month (slightly exagerated), apparently cars need water and oil, who knew? DO they usually go because of the heater matrix water pipe you mentioned earlier? The difficult to get to under dash beasty?
When a head gasket goes, do they have a tendancy to lunch engines? I have done H'gaskets on Corsa's, Metro's and Punto's before, but never a V engine, does it make it considerably more awkward?

Thanks for all of the help. I am getting a clearer and clearer picture of what to look for, and how to get to grips with it!

Oh and your engine looks SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET! I love having engines in the building frame, and when they are all clean and shiny! I'm helping the 'rental swap his 1.6 turbo-weasel and his Skoda 1.9 weasel. The 1.6 is going to be a spare for his T25 camper (and has just come out of it), and the 1.9 has come out of my mum's Felicia, and is the same as a VW 1.9 diesel. It's nice to have spare engines and stuff. My dream is to have a 5 van workshop like my dad! Not on these wages.....lol

Ah Teflon, you could be describing my old 1977 RR that I bought in 1993 after years of always wanting one. Two years & several thousand pounds later I'd had enough & got rid though to be fair a lot of the spares prices were really hefty back then & it was on the road for nearly 18 months. I enjoyed driving it but heavy running costs have put me off ever buying another though I have been tempted once or twice.

OK.....
If you can manage a silly head on a mini-motor, you are more than up to tackling a buick block V8.... only thing is they are an aluminium motor.... and a half! Two 'top ends' one bottom!
So, like a citreon, when the head gasket goes, they need the heads skimming to make sure they haven't warped and are flat... but a lot of people dont bother..... take note.
Later engines use 'thick' stintered head-gaskets; earlier ones thin steel. So, common 'trick' rather than forking out £45 a head (there's two, remember) to have it 'trued' they slap a 'thick' stintered gasket in to take up any slack...... and it usually works...... for long enough to flog on the car!
Can be an 'OK' get you by.... but the thicker gaskets lift the heads and reduce the compression ratio, so they dont perform well, and the emmissions can go to pot.
Yes, the heater matrix hoses are often a cause of overheating, if the heater is turned 'on', and they leak, then water can drain from the top of the motor, leaving an air lock in the cylinder heads..... more usually though, its the big lazy water-pump, which gets firred up in and around the ports and just doesn't shift enough water.
As for other variant Rover V8's..... there are hundreds of 'factory' variations. They were in production from 1966 through to 2006 I believe, and now made to order by some-one else.
In that time, they have been fitted to the Rover P5B, the P6 and SD1, the MGBGT V8, the Triumph 'stag', the Morgan Plus 8, TRV 350, Range Rover, Land Rover 101FC, Land Rover 109 'Stage 1', Land Rover 110, Land Rover 90, Land Rover Discovery, and the 'relaunched' MG 'V8', the 'Sherpa' (mainly amnbulance variants), and more I probably cant remember off the top of my head, as well as versions released for 'specialist' applications, which can include anything from military generators, to fire fighting pumps, to limited production kit-cars, or specialist commercials.
Original motor, as used in the P5B was a low stress 3.5 carburated engine, with low compression, a 'lazy' long duration (270 degrees of 'dwell') cam-shaft, that barely made 120bhp, and a conventional 'points' ignition.
With some tweeks, that pretty well remained the essential RV8 throughout the early life of the Range Rover and most of the P6 production; though the P6 variants got increased compression ratio and slightly lumpier cams.
Big change came with and continued throughout the life of the SD1. Launched in 76, it used pretty much the old P6 engine, but was continually refined throughout, with many variants made, including the Vanden-Plas and Vittesse, which ultimately got EFi induction, and electronic ignitions, which eventually found there way onto Range Rovers.
During SD1 production, the motors first gained 'electronic' ignition, by way of an 'amplified' points set up, later a propper 'contactless' hall effect system. Most numerouse changes though were in the cam-shafts and cylinder heads; they went through an awful lot of cam designs trying to make the thing a bit less thirsty (a problem caused essentially by that 'lazy' 270 dwell cam carried over from the original buick sky-lark), while finding more power for the more heavily equipped or 'sporty' variants.
However the greatest program of development on the RV8 came in the early 90's. The V8 no longer used in Rover Saloons, its most usual home was in the Range Rover, which by then had taken on a LOT of middle ages spread, and was struggling to make anything like reasonable power AND get through tightening emmission regs.
Tuners had been boring out the Rv8 to around 4.0l for years, but with a reputation for fragility; however, rover 'had a go' and with a bit of help from JE Engineering in Coventry, came up with the 3.9, which was the basis for the later, 4.0, 4.2, 4.6 & 5.0l engines used in Range Rovers and TVR's.
These (4.0, 4.2, 4.6 & 5.0l engines) are often described as 'serpantine belt' motors, and are a long way from having much in common with the earlier engines. Same basic block casting, but it was modified to put more metal around the crank journals to allow bigger main bearings.
The engine was then dressed with completely different ancilliaries, driven by a single 'serpantine' toothed belt, rather than the 'combine harvester' arrangement of individual pulleys used on earlier models. Most significantly though, they lost the distributor, finally gaining a completely sensor driven and mapped, integrated electronic engine management computer (I think called 'GEMs) SOME bits are intergchangeable, but for the most part, a very different animal.
So, yeah... there are a LOT of detail differences in engines of different vintage and or oragin! And that's before any-one starts tinkering with them!
As for dropping and SD1 engine into a Rangie.... been done time immemorial, as has slapping an SD1 bump stick into a Rangie motor. They do go well, though to be honest, the earlier SD1 engines probably weren't as highly 'cammed' as the later Rangies! So it could actually be a retrograde step on some variants!
For the most part though, the SD1's had heads with bigger valves and higher bumps on the cam. For 'on-road' poke, using and SD1 engine isn't a bad way to go, but reports suggest that on earlier engines, popping a later profile Rangie cam into the old engine can actuallyu give you more oomph as well as keeping the renowned Rangie bottom end grunt.
Your 'mates' SD1 (I assume?) engine; engine on its own, would go in OK, but not sure about the auto-box. I have a feeling that MOST of the SD1's used the Borg-Warner 3-speed auto carried over from the P6, and as used on the Jags, though some of the later ones might have had the ZF-Four speed, that was used in Mercs & BMW's that has been most used in EFI Rangies.
The 'manual' SD1 got the then new LT77 five speed manual, which the Range Rover and 90/110 were to later use, but with a transfer box on the back to provide four wheel drive.
Obviousely auto-box on SD1 engine, whatever it is, wont have the transfer box, and probably not easily fitted with one. Hence IF you wanted to use the SD1 engine, you'd probably have to strip off the torque flex-plate (auto's equivilent of a fly-wheel) and swap that onto the SD1 motors crank, along with the engine adapter ring to mate it to the Rangies bell-housing. Not too onerouse though, except for the kick-down linkage, which luckily you should have on an auto-motor, but depending on the box, might take some head scratching to get it to activate from the box / pedal links.
You can 'play' with RV8's to your hearts content; cams, valves, heads, carbs, rockers, timing sets, etc etc etc are all available to almost any spect you want, either a factory standard or a 'hi-po' bit. Catalogues are full of stuff for them, even more so than the ones for VW boxer engines!
Back to that motor I built; If I was doing it again, I'd not be quite so concervative; that one was rebuilt pretty much to 'book' specs. If I did it again, I'd use duplex vernier timing gear, TVR spec tappets, lighter push-rods and lighter, higher ratio 'roller' rockers, just as a start, and I'd PROBABLY as I'd most as like be doing it to a 3.9 EFi engine, I say PROBABLY junk most of the original EFi kit and do a Mega-Squirt job on it, with a 'custom' induction set up.
I'd be 'Duel Fuel'-ing it, with an LPG squirter set up, and my inclination would be to make up individual stub-stacks with thier own throttle butterfly for each port, including a gas injector and petrol injector, which would be sequentially programmed, and duel mapped for petrol and LPG.
Dizzy would be ditched, and the ignition run off the Mega-Squirt ECU via eight individual 'micro-coils', (I'd probably use Motorbike Coils, rather than tru micro's TBH) which I'd probably site INSIDE the rocker covers to keep them out of harm's (and water's!) way.
And with mappable ignition I could run a LOT of advance for the LPG, but have a more 'concervative' advance curve in the ECU for petrol, so I could afford to go a bit silly with the compression ratio, and maybe bump that up to something like 12:1 to get some seriousely useful performance on the cheap stuff!
...... but coming back to reality!
You've got the idea.... its a very common motor and incredibly well supported, as well as reasonably easy to work on.
Electronic Air Suspension (EAS)....... dont buy anything new enough to have it..... and you dont need to worry about it!
Its a bit of a night-mare. Doesn't work off a pump on the engine, has its own electric compressor. Doesn't pump up the faster you go, it squats down.
Theres a switch somewhere I believe that lets you 'lock' the ride hight between four settings, motorway (low) 'normal' and 'off-road' (high), as well as 'self adjusting'
Depending on variant, does some strange things; think on some of them it 'squats' when a door is opened to let the passengers in and out. It 'settles' when parked, and lifts when you move off, drops when you reach a certain speed (50mph or something) and 'lifts' when you engage 'low range' gears for off-road.
All controlled by a load of displacement sensors in the shock absorbers, which, again, I believe on some variants are also controlled by the EAS 'brain'......
Horendousely over complicated, and fault prone.... not necesserily the systems fault, but expensive parts, lax maintenence and ignorant owners / mechanics have seen these things aquire a very bad reputation.
Usual start of the problems is that teh dampers dont get changed becouse of the cost, and or the air-bags perish and start leaking, making the EAS pump work its b'lox off, and eventually screwing the brain that controls it..... cost and complexity then sees the springy bits (the air-bags) actually the cheapest part of the system 'ditched' in favour of coil springs to prop the body up without so much hassle, and eliminate the need for the pump, brain and telemetry....
Only trouble is, that the geometry os set up for air springs, and the dampers, unless changed for ones to suit the coils are rated for the air springs AND still expect to be controlled by the brain.... so its a hornets nest of pottential problems!
JUST avoid it all together and get a Range Rover with Coils as Spen King intended then to have!
NOW after hauling my deranged mind away from fantacies involving your fiance's twin sister...... .....
Yeah! strange how they need oil and water.... innit.....
Note how in the pic of my little red wonder, the oil filler cap and dip-stick are painted fishing float flourescent yellow............ were to have been chromed to matech the rest of the detailing but.... It was going back into my 3.5 3-Speed Auto, which my now EX-Troll used as her daily driver......

So, Engine good! Gearbox bad. I don't particularly want to fanny around with changing over too much stuff straight off the bat.

Air springs sound like a great idea, but poorly executed/maintained. Mr Teflon, where might one buy a book with all of these technicolour variations/gearbox/engine info in, so that I can learn more myself? Basically a list of engine/gearbox combinations and interior options etc, so I know what I'm looking at, to see if what is there is right, or wrong. It would also be useful for a novice like me, as I would get a better idea, when at autjumbles etc to see what I can pick up that might be transferable. I love nothing more than filling my shed with things that might be useful. My dad told me I was an idiot to keep the old rad assembly off me van.. Later, a month or too on, I needed the bolts, as my brother had not tightenbed them enough, and blow me down, I had them to hand!

As far as the twin of me missus goes. Sorry chuck, you missed out, I bagged the good looking one. The other one is a very clever girl, and has a degree in chemistry. She explained what fire is to me. Something that My A Level chemistry teacher never actually managed!