Strewth I hope not, spending all this money and I may have killed it?
Still waiting on the Diagnostic gadget to arrive, coming from Russia. Clever people them Russians.
Webasto FBH - Help me diagnose failure?
- Thread starter dampsox
- Start date
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Strewth I hope not, spending all this money and I may have killed it?
Still waiting on the Diagnostic gadget to arrive, coming from Russia. Clever people them Russians.
Very late update, still trying to cope with a knackered wrist not yet healed..
I wanted to make a permanent wire from Pin-2 (Diagnostic) of the X6 connector, for future ease of use. I found there was already a wire coming out of Pin-6 on the X6 connector. So I bared it, tinned it, then soldered in an offshoot wire for connecting to the diagnostic box:
Set uo the Diagnostic box conected to the USB Port (then Com-5) on my Windows lappy.
I tried every variation I could find in the 'Device Type' eg Rover Websato Thermo Top c, the BMW Thermo Top C - all choices availabe one after the other, but sadly, the red light that shows communication between the Webasto brains and the diagnostic gadget, only flickered weakly as it tried to 'Wake up' the heater...
more...
I wanted to make a permanent wire from Pin-2 (Diagnostic) of the X6 connector, for future ease of use. I found there was already a wire coming out of Pin-6 on the X6 connector. So I bared it, tinned it, then soldered in an offshoot wire for connecting to the diagnostic box:
Set uo the Diagnostic box conected to the USB Port (then Com-5) on my Windows lappy.
I tried every variation I could find in the 'Device Type' eg Rover Websato Thermo Top c, the BMW Thermo Top C - all choices availabe one after the other, but sadly, the red light that shows communication between the Webasto brains and the diagnostic gadget, only flickered weakly as it tried to 'Wake up' the heater...
more...
After a Time-out each time, this is the message I get. What we have here, is failure to communicate...
Stumped.
I was surprised to see the X6 connector Pin-2 already connected to a wire. Wonder if that was a reason for it not communicating with the diagnostic? Did I wire it right splicing into the wire like that, or did the diagnostic need exclusive connection?
Would appreciate words on next step...
Stumped.
I was surprised to see the X6 connector Pin-2 already connected to a wire. Wonder if that was a reason for it not communicating with the diagnostic? Did I wire it right splicing into the wire like that, or did the diagnostic need exclusive connection?
Would appreciate words on next step...
Yeah, reckon that's worth a try. I had a look at other more expensive diagnostic adapters on fleabay, some have 2 main crocodile clips to go straight to the main (2-pin connections) power on the Webasto, with only one solitary mini-croc-clip to go on the Pin number-2 of the 6-pin X6 connector.
So yes, I may have not been allowing the Thermotest software to access the heater - especially if my wiring loom has a fault fugging everything up, eg I do have a nagging doubt I have a short somewhere..especially after those years of that melted, overheating Cabin Fan wiring bodge.
So, out in the frost again - why do we never do these jobs in t'Summer?? ;-)
Will update...
So yes, I may have not been allowing the Thermotest software to access the heater - especially if my wiring loom has a fault fugging everything up, eg I do have a nagging doubt I have a short somewhere..especially after those years of that melted, overheating Cabin Fan wiring bodge.
So, out in the frost again - why do we never do these jobs in t'Summer?? ;-)
Will update...
Nodge68
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What wire have you connected you data wire too. You mentioned pin 6 of the 6 way connector. The W bus is on pin 2. This is where you need to connect the data wire.
If I've misread you post, ignore mine.
If I've misread you post, ignore mine.
No it was Pin-2, on the X6 connector.
Update. Well I tried the diagnostic gadget with dedicated wires to the 12v 2-pin plug, then a solitary croc connector to Pin-2 of Connector X6
Totally dead, same thing, no comms with the diagnostic.
At this stage, I decided to get the heater off.
The exhaust is cracked, and some of the screws that allow access to the heater's brains have heads so badly corroded they immediately snapped off! - so strip-down on this job may be a pain.
So a bit of work ahead to see if I can get this running again, or if a new one will be cheaper. Interesting stuff, will update...need to hurry, de snow, it's a comin!!
Update. Well I tried the diagnostic gadget with dedicated wires to the 12v 2-pin plug, then a solitary croc connector to Pin-2 of Connector X6
Totally dead, same thing, no comms with the diagnostic.
At this stage, I decided to get the heater off.
The exhaust is cracked, and some of the screws that allow access to the heater's brains have heads so badly corroded they immediately snapped off! - so strip-down on this job may be a pain.
So a bit of work ahead to see if I can get this running again, or if a new one will be cheaper. Interesting stuff, will update...need to hurry, de snow, it's a comin!!
NeedleNose
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Great thread, mine seems dead at the moment too so watching with interest (although I think a hat and gloves for me this year).
Arctic2
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excellent thread mine seems to coming on all the time ? no matter what temp is out side need to do some checking, will be following this with great interest thanks for sharing Arctic2
PS I think it maybe the FBH PCB board, as they also go wrong on the R40, once I have chance to remove it I will send it off to French Mike.
PS I think it maybe the FBH PCB board, as they also go wrong on the R40, once I have chance to remove it I will send it off to French Mike.
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peterkenyonent
New Member
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I am having a problem with my FBH on my 2004 freelander TD4. I havent owned it long and had the abient temp sensor changed. I didnt even know I had a FBH until the garage said. My cabin heater only heats to just above warm, and I wondered what the best way forward is? Do I investigate the FBH like the person did above, Change the thermostat in the engine.. IM sure that someone must have had the same issues
Many Thanks, and sorry for adding and not solving your issue. I am new here and could not find the right place to start a thread, and yours sounds a similar issue
Many Thanks, and sorry for adding and not solving your issue. I am new here and could not find the right place to start a thread, and yours sounds a similar issue
Great thread dampsox, good photos...disconnected mine(fuse 5) when my fbh smoked us out on its first seasonal start up ....judging by the amount of dead fbh,s you see at breakers and parts jumbles I guess mine will be knackered at 13yrs old. Maybe a rad muff is the way to go?
NeedleNose
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Had a play with mine today so thought I'd add what little I discoveed to this great thread.
Mine hasn't run at all during the really cold snap, so today I checked the ambient sensor. With the engine running I had 12v on one terminal - that's good so I linked the 2 terminals as shown earlier in the thread.
The fbh still didn't fire so I pulled F5 in the engine fuse box for about 30sec. There's been a little confusion whether to do this with the engine running or not as F5 is also marked engine management - well I did mine with the engine running and it stayed running fine. On reinsertion the fbh whirred into life!
Then after a few seconds it stopped. Another reset and it stayed running for the 5 minutes I gave it, then after the engine was switched off it ran on for up to a minute before stopping.
All seemed good so I wanted to check it without the engine running, feeding 12v direct to the fbh sensor wire. It span up again and all seemed good.
A few things confuse me though. I haven't driven it yet and it's quite mild today, so these may clear themselves up.
A few people have said their fbh smokes and makes a loud roar when running, mine didn't smoke at all, the exhaust gasses didn't feel particularly hot either. It was actually fairly quiet.
The body of the fbh did get noticeably warm, and this started creeping down the exhaust (and the water pipes). This coupled with the fact it didn't stop on lock out makes me think it's probably working.
I tested the ambient sensor in the freezer, and it switched nicely, but could still be out of spec. Mines got a black plastic body - I think I read somewhere about a wide range sensor having a green body, I'll check but if so I'll get one of those to replace mine.
Right now I've got a wire link between the sensor terminals, hopefully the next journey will be warmer.
Bit of a ramble but it might help someone.
Edit:
I meant narrow range sensor, as in the excerpt from another forum (MG/ZT)
PROBLEM:
POOR HEATER PERFORMANCE FROM COLD ENGINE START UP
The customer complains of excessive delay in obtaining satisfactory heater output
following a cold start.
CAUSE:
Due to an excessively wide sensing tolerance, the outside air temperature sensor
may not activate the FBH until the ambient temperature is as low as 0 o C.
This renders the FBH inactive at temperatures where its additional heat output
would be beneficial in assisting with engine and heater warm up.
ACTION:
On customer complaint, replace the outside air temperature sensor with the new
narrow range sensor
PARTS INFORMATION:
JWL000020 Sensor - outside air temperature
NOTE: The body of the new part is now moulded in green to distinguish it from its
predecessor.
Mine hasn't run at all during the really cold snap, so today I checked the ambient sensor. With the engine running I had 12v on one terminal - that's good so I linked the 2 terminals as shown earlier in the thread.
The fbh still didn't fire so I pulled F5 in the engine fuse box for about 30sec. There's been a little confusion whether to do this with the engine running or not as F5 is also marked engine management - well I did mine with the engine running and it stayed running fine. On reinsertion the fbh whirred into life!
Then after a few seconds it stopped. Another reset and it stayed running for the 5 minutes I gave it, then after the engine was switched off it ran on for up to a minute before stopping.
All seemed good so I wanted to check it without the engine running, feeding 12v direct to the fbh sensor wire. It span up again and all seemed good.
A few things confuse me though. I haven't driven it yet and it's quite mild today, so these may clear themselves up.
A few people have said their fbh smokes and makes a loud roar when running, mine didn't smoke at all, the exhaust gasses didn't feel particularly hot either. It was actually fairly quiet.
The body of the fbh did get noticeably warm, and this started creeping down the exhaust (and the water pipes). This coupled with the fact it didn't stop on lock out makes me think it's probably working.
I tested the ambient sensor in the freezer, and it switched nicely, but could still be out of spec. Mines got a black plastic body - I think I read somewhere about a wide range sensor having a green body, I'll check but if so I'll get one of those to replace mine.
Right now I've got a wire link between the sensor terminals, hopefully the next journey will be warmer.
Bit of a ramble but it might help someone.
Edit:
I meant narrow range sensor, as in the excerpt from another forum (MG/ZT)
PROBLEM:
POOR HEATER PERFORMANCE FROM COLD ENGINE START UP
The customer complains of excessive delay in obtaining satisfactory heater output
following a cold start.
CAUSE:
Due to an excessively wide sensing tolerance, the outside air temperature sensor
may not activate the FBH until the ambient temperature is as low as 0 o C.
This renders the FBH inactive at temperatures where its additional heat output
would be beneficial in assisting with engine and heater warm up.
ACTION:
On customer complaint, replace the outside air temperature sensor with the new
narrow range sensor
PARTS INFORMATION:
JWL000020 Sensor - outside air temperature
NOTE: The body of the new part is now moulded in green to distinguish it from its
predecessor.
Last edited:
I dont think yours is working to be honest - the sound you hear is its fan and water pump running, but that doesnt mean its burning.
They dont "roar" as such, but make quite a distinct rumbling noise.
The exhaust gas should be too hot to put your hand under within a few seconds of it lighting. The warmth you feel on its body is possibly due to warm coolant circulating through it.
You should also hear a definite rhythmic ticking noise from the rear right wheel arch where the fuel doser pump is. It will tick rapidly at start-up and settle down to about 1 click per second.
Mine is kippered too - if I reset it by pulling the fuse, when I get it to run the fan runs full speed for 1 second, pauses, then runs again at full speed and will continue to do so until it times out and needs re-set again. Its making no effort to light and the fuel doser isnt ticking.
They dont "roar" as such, but make quite a distinct rumbling noise.
The exhaust gas should be too hot to put your hand under within a few seconds of it lighting. The warmth you feel on its body is possibly due to warm coolant circulating through it.
You should also hear a definite rhythmic ticking noise from the rear right wheel arch where the fuel doser pump is. It will tick rapidly at start-up and settle down to about 1 click per second.
Mine is kippered too - if I reset it by pulling the fuse, when I get it to run the fan runs full speed for 1 second, pauses, then runs again at full speed and will continue to do so until it times out and needs re-set again. Its making no effort to light and the fuel doser isnt ticking.
landyhaze
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Oh, it seems I picked the wrong thread to reply to 
FBH = Fuel Burning Heater. Anyway I found a youtube clip of someone running a diagnostic program to 'burn' out the debris in the FBH. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK3AuiQWjAE
The manual doesn;t have any symptoms, but it maybe my recently resurrected FBH is smokey because it is trying to do some kind of burn-off like a DPH filter does. The mechanic today hooked up a diagnostic computer to a plug in the passenger footwell, and was able to interrogate the FBH, and told me it had locked out due a flame out in the past. So where do I get the diagnostic software from?
FBH = Fuel Burning Heater. Anyway I found a youtube clip of someone running a diagnostic program to 'burn' out the debris in the FBH. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK3AuiQWjAE The manual doesn;t have any symptoms, but it maybe my recently resurrected FBH is smokey because it is trying to do some kind of burn-off like a DPH filter does. The mechanic today hooked up a diagnostic computer to a plug in the passenger footwell, and was able to interrogate the FBH, and told me it had locked out due a flame out in the past. So where do I get the diagnostic software from?
NeedleNose
Active Member
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That makes sense, I had wondered if it was the circulating coolant making it warm, and I couldn't hear the doser pump either but im a bit deaf so put it down to me...
oh well, one step forward.
landyhaze
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Arctic2
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Tested mine yet again yesterday starts up as soon as the engine is turned on, and then runs all the time the car is running, once I turn the engine off it still runs on for about 2-3 minutes then it turns off.
I did connect the Hawkeye to it but as I am still finding my way round the HW none of it make sense to me anyway Arctic2
I did connect the Hawkeye to it but as I am still finding my way round the HW none of it make sense to me anyway
Arctic2Attachments
landyhaze
Active Member
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Tested mine yet again yesterday starts up as soon as the engine is turned on, and then runs all the time the car is running, once I turn the engine off it still runs on for about 2-3 minutes then it turns off.
I did connect the Hawkeye to it but as I am still finding my way round the HW none of it make sense to me anyway
Ah, there should be some way to read the coolant inlet temperature, and by the look of your instrument binnacle it should be close to 85. The FBH is supposed to stop at something near 65 I think?
