water pump malfunction, snapped impeller..

here is the vitals:

300tdi disco, 1997 es. 5dr.

temp guage went high.

Slowed immediately to save cyl head and the head gasket.

Water pump made funny noises.
On investigation found impeller snapped on the water pump (alloy) vanes.

my guess due to ice or some type of blockage due to recent minus temps,
the antifreeze was probably the culprit. (not being correct mixture.)

need to know if the broken vanes on the impeller of the water pump flow would have taken them into the cylinder block,


looked for signs of scratching or marking the entrance of the cylinder block towards the cylinder head. will try a flush, but suspect worse case scenario. that I will have to lift cylinder head off and try and find the bits of impellar,

has anyone ever seen this before?

any little tips to recover bits?

I am using an old bent screw driver to indicate where I think they travelled down. can anyone advise or confirm?

bits of metal blocking the waterways, that could be interesting

think its going to be painful to find these broken bits, any ideas sean?

squidly said:

think its going to be painful to find these broken bits, any ideas sean?

Click to expand...

i hope not, good luck

bugger!
not certain at mo, but i thionk water flow goes into block via p gasket from pump.
whats the chances of getting a telescopic magnet up there?
alloy vanes, just re read op.
backflushing head to block with water?
best of luck!

Well this is turning out to be emotional... I think the best thing to do is to take cylinder head off, and dismantle the bas***rd until I can find the pieces.. this has really hurt my feelings...

I want to love my landrover, but it keeps hurting me. hahaha

i think I will have to get to stripping it right down. I even thought about scrapping the thing. and just cutting my loses..

It has been a learning process though.. but not fun to do when you havent got a garage or anywhere nice and warm to work.

if anyone could suggest anymore, then let me know.. nrg serv, I like the idea of the p gasket area.. will look right into that.

nrgserv said:

whats the chances of getting a telescopic magnet up there?

Click to expand...

or one of those springy things you find at pound shops that someone always gets you for christmas? them things with the claw on one end and a plunger on the other.
a bit of random poking and grabbing may pull the blade out prior to stripping.
i'm not overly optimistic about being able to remove the blade with the head off, as the water galleries between the head and block are small.
if you cant grab it, and back flushing is unsuccessful, i'd probably leave it where it is.

would really love to leave the to blades in situ, but unfortunately I am not recieving any heat through heaters, as I believe its not allowing water to circulate to the heaters, I have even looked in the radiator to try and find the particles

I took off one of the heater hoses and poured a lot of water down into the engine and with the blowing power of 10 thailand prostitutes blew as if my life depended on it... with a mate watching the output, if failed to bring out the pieces.

when I disovered the problem, I found that the temp guage went up slightly, not enough to warp a head and blow a head gasket. But while I am dismantling the poor excuse for a 300tdi I will look at the state of the HG.

I even bought a camera on a snake with an lcd to fing this elusive f$$king thing. hmmnn


what other signs and symptoms could this show lads?

i suppose forcing water around the block and through the heater under pressure (maybe from a jet washer?) would flush some of the chips out - failing that the only other real options are to run it and fingers crossed, or a complete strip and blow through of the waterways

over heating and and no heater might just be a sign of constriction - what does the engine temp do when it's running ?

flush the heater matrix out under pressure, with both side disconnected from the engine

if you can get water out of heater outlets dont worry the bits will just lie in the bottom of the block,if heater not working probably not filled system fully ,need to remove bung on thermostat housing and fill till exspansiobn bottle overflows

I appreciate that advice, will get a pressure washer on that bad boy and give it some.

thought about the old air lock, but I have double checked that..

I am one of these blokes that is a bit of an ocd freak.. I hate the fact that I havent managed to get the pieces out. It sits there on my mind and festers.

keep that advice coming I appreciate it is really apreciated... thankyou so much guys....

oh just re-read the post sean, refrence the temp... it sits at normal but at times it goes higher which makes me stop for fear of blowing a HG.


Thanks again for trying to solve this.

well I am going to dissasemble the engine completely soon, and see if I can find the pieces to get my poor landrover working again...

I have forgotten, but does anyone know roughly how long the heater takes to pump hot air through? I am sure that the thermostat has to open up first... hmnnn.

squidly said:

well I am going to dissasemble the engine completely soon, and see if I can find the pieces to get my poor landrover working again...

I have forgotten, but does anyone know roughly how long the heater takes to pump hot air through? I am sure that the thermostat has to open up first... hmnnn.

Click to expand...

heater matrix continually in circuit with cylinder head coolant. stat is 3 way valve and as it opens, closes heater matrix. designed for continual water flow round block and head. removing it causes flow problems with water flowing via matrix and not rad.
mine starts blowing tepid after 5 mins of driving.
roundabout 20 mins and its usually up to temp.
can leave it on tickover for that 20 mins an it still wont have defrosted the windscreen.....

thanks buddy, I find that when you have ears for strange noises under the bonnet, you concentrate on it so much that you start over looking things and losing a grip on small things like how long it takes to heat up.

I am sure that when I first replaced a head gasket, it was quick to heat up and for the heaters to start pumping out hot air.

someone actually recommended that I completely dissasemble and remove the core plugs to attempt to try and push the chips out of the core to find them...

here is a question for you though, I have actually blown water back through the block without resistance with more than a full set of lungs with no resistance.... surely that has to be a sign that the obstuction is clear, I think the only way is to drive it around and if the temp guage goes up, then I will have to dissassemble and try and find these chips..

the question being... would it be clear if I can blow that through??

squidly said:

the question being... would it be clear if I can blow that through??

Click to expand...

is the pump still off it?
is so, remove stat, replace housing, remove top pipe from rad and bung it (round head on a 2lb ball pien hammer fits good), remove heater pipe at rear of head and bung outlet, remove stat housing bung and connect hosepipe to it.flush system backwards for as long as you like.
might be worth seiving water from pump housing to catch metallic bits so you can see them.
if nowt comes out reckon you might be ok.

gotta say "might" to cover me arse, but i would be happy to run mine after backflushing.

nice advice , if I can achieve that, I am in buisness. I will let you know how I get on with this, the interesting thing is the chips are about half a of a 50pence piece, if you look at the picture I posted, I placed the impeller back on the pump just to show all what was going on and the direction I imagine...ie the chips going through into the water galleries, I just hope that they will flush through, it gets increasingly hard to trust this vehicle..

Thanks for the advice mate, once i get through this problem if your down this way, I will buy you a beer or help out if your in close proximity. I am good at holding my word. cheers.

cheers!
are you assuming the impellor bit bits are in the 2 peices they broke off in? might be they got mulched up much finer with the other blades while still running.
long shot as well, but have you looked on the floor from when you removed the pump, as you normally remove one not expecting blades to fall out?

keep us posted, were still watching.

Yeah I did actually, when I removed the pump I was praying for those pieces to fall out.

But I had no joy, I did flush it and all that came out was very fine alloy scrapings which made me think that I got away with it.

I very carefully looked at the flow into the cylinder block to observe any scrapes or any signs of scraping, but I think the flow from what was left of the impeller still had some force enough to keep the water flowing and going in. I am under the opinion that the pieces might me acting as bit of a valve pivoting on the sharp angles. Hence no heater at the moment, looking at the remaining pieces of impellar, I am looking at 2 pieces. would love to ignore it, But dont want to risk overheating and cooking a head gasket and all the stuff that goes with it.