(V6) Expension tank pressure cap early venting, possible cause of HGF ?

zefrench · Dec 30, 2013

I was looking into the cooling system radiator cap, and came accross this video
$5 PART WILL SAVE YOUR POWERSTROKE FROM SELF DESTRUCTION - YouTube

If you watch the entire video, you will see that the guy in there test the old style of cap which appears to me the exact type as OEM for Freelanders KV6.
He says that a lot of old caps vent at much lower PSI, in turn lowering the bowling point.
I think this is a potential explanation to the various V6 Freelanders that are now having HGF here in USA and Canada.

I will be buying a new cap, (I cannot test my old one, I drilled it before I saw this, doh!)

This is the part number for that cap:
stant 10238 (there are many copies of this by Gate and such)

Using this information
http://www.stant.com/documents/12270 Testers section.pdf

I was able to find the stant part number for the tester adapter.
12026 to test car
12029 to test cap

And more importantly, the cap size and threads pitch to make your own tester:
M52 x 2.5

Hippo · Dec 30, 2013

Rave says the pressure relief is 1 bar or 14.5psi.

Does yer coolant rubber pipe go hard when yer engine coolant temp rises? They should do. This is the pressure building up. Often the reservoir tank splits around the top which allows pressure to escape.

The bloke in the vid is a bit angry. I watched it all.

zefrench · Dec 30, 2013

My pressure tank is empty so before adding coolant I want to pressure test the cooling system. I will be taking a hard look at the thermostat and associated plastic pipes in the V of the engine and of course near all the old hose clips. I will post more when I have more done. I will be a week or so before I started.

Nodge68 · Dec 30, 2013

As far as I know the pressure cap release pressure was increased from 14.5 to 16 psi. The new style large tank doesn't like that pressure and splits. I'v got the old small tank on mine.

zefrench · Dec 30, 2013

Thanks to a post from Hippo http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/1339904-post11.html I found the relevant part numbers:

Old tank and cap:

PCF00010 HEADER TANK (COOLING)
PCD100160 CAP HEADER TANK

New tank and cap:
PCF000012 Tank
PCD000090 Cap

Newer part number for the cap:
PCD500030

zefrench · Jan 3, 2014

I received the Stant Brand adapters. They fit perfectly on the cap and the tank I have.

Any values in pictures? I am at a lost at to what pictures people would find useful with this.

Would pictures of pressure testing the cap and the expansion tank be useful to anyone? Any other picture request with those parts?

Nodge68 · Jan 3, 2014

zefrench said:
I received the Stant Brand adapters. They fit perfectly on the cap and the tank I have.

Any values in pictures? I am at a lost at to what pictures people would find useful with this.

Would pictures of pressure testing the cap and the expansion tank be useful to anyone? Any other picture request with those parts?

A picture tells a thousand words, the more the better

zefrench · Jan 4, 2014

I am trying to upload the pictures but I get this error:

Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing.

If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error.

Any ideas what I could be missing?

Hippo · Jan 5, 2014

zefrench said:
I am trying to upload the pictures but I get this error:

Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing.

If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error.

Any ideas what I could be missing?

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f38/picture-posting-dummies-47795.html

zefrench · Jan 5, 2014

Trying again. I like using attachments here versus a URL IMG link elsewhere.

Uploading one or two pictures at a time works, trying all 10 does not. FYI for others.

zefrench · Jan 5, 2014

Pictures of the two adapters. Sorry for the lighting... I am not a photograph..

zefrench · Jan 5, 2014

Testing of the new expansion tank cap. Tested fine.

zefrench · Jan 5, 2014

Fitting of the car adapter (Expansion tank adapter) and testing of the cooling system.

So far, no leaks, which is good news.

zefrench · Jan 21, 2014

Well I have confirmed it, thermostat appears to be failed closed. Looking at IOS DashCmd ODB2 code reader you can see in the screenshot attached the coolant has different temperatures before and after the Thermostat.

The two coolant hose are different temperatures too, one hot and one cold. Good news is I have the alloy housing thermostat already in hand, so now its just a "fun job" in the middle of winter at -15 celcius. I am going to wait for a warmer day.

I will be posting pictures of how I will be doing the thermostat too. The joys of a KV6! The location of the thermostat...

This is how I will be attempting to change it for those interested.

Replacing KV6 Thermostat - (Keyhole Method) - The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums

Nodge68 · Jan 22, 2014

zefrench said:
Well I have confirmed it, thermostat appears to be failed closed. Looking at IOS DashCmd ODB2 code reader you can see in the screenshot attached the coolant has different temperatures before and after the Thermostat.

The two coolant hose are different temperatures too, one hot and one cold. Good news is I have the alloy housing thermostat already in hand, so now its just a "fun job" in the middle of winter at -15 celcius. I am going to wait for a warmer day.

I will be posting pictures of how I will be doing the thermostat too. The joys of a KV6! The location of the thermostat...

This is how I will be attempting to change it for those interested.

Replacing KV6 Thermostat - (Keyhole Method) - The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums

How did you obtain the alloy stat housing? They are impossible to get now.
Cheers

zefrench · Jan 22, 2014

What do you mean impossible ? I am in regular email contact with the man that makes them (Guido) and even last week he said he had a few he was making. Do you have more details?

In my case, I simply emailed him and then sent money via paypal and waited roughly 3 weeks to receive it.

Nodge68 · Jan 22, 2014

zefrench said:
What do you mean impossible ? I am in regular email contact with the man that makes them (Guido) and even last week he said he had a few he was making. Do you have more details?

In my case, I simply emailed him and then sent money via paypal and waited roughly 3 weeks to receive it.

Are these custom made housings?
I know there is a guy in SA that makes them. Expensive iirc.
More info on the housings you get would be appreciated.

zefrench · Jan 22, 2014

Same guy in South Africa (his handle is kaiser). Cost for the housing and air shipping to Canada was
Danish Kroner 1300 or roughly 142 GBP (I wonder if shipping to UK is less then Canada)

For me it was comparing CAD$100 for aftermarket plastic piece to CAD$260 so well worth it. I do not want to worry about a split housing or failing one. I think the Canadian winters making the housing go from -25 to +100 degree Celcius rather quickly is not good on that plastic. I have seen quick a few V6 Freelanders blow a headgasket in this ****ry due to cooling issues.

Of note the housing is for the Rover style pipe connection (Hose Clip) and not the Freelancer style (quick connect) but I plan on using hose clips just the same and making it work.

His email address is
willdo -theatsign- icon -dot- co -dot- za

Nodge68 · Jan 22, 2014

The plastic stat housing isn't good. Rover originally made them out of alloy but that was changed to plastic to save costs.
I change the plastic stat every 2 years to aid reliability. They aren't to expensive here.

zefrench · Mar 13, 2014

Well I got to the bottom of it. Thermostat had failed shut.

Thanks to Nodge68 for the tips, and Kaiser (not on this board) for the alloy thermostat housing, all is well now.

I was not able to use the keyhole method, but I did take tons of pictures. Expect a new thread in a howto style in the future.

(V6) Expension tank pressure cap early venting, possible cause of HGF ?

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