upgraded vnt turbo to td5 engine ?

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adaptorman

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Im told i can remove a std none vvt turbocharger .but im confused as most vv turbos use a pulseing type system and the td5 just has a set psi of the preload of the wastegate so how dose the vvt type work as id assume it would need the correct ecu software to work correctly
 
The ones available are mechanically operated using an actuater and its own boost pressure. the more the boost the more the vanes open up. If you fit one to a D2 you will need a boost box to stop the ecu registering overboost Look at bell autos, td5 alive alisport and allard. they all do suitable units

HTH
 
Previous poster is correct you simply connect the old wastegate feed to the new actuator. This isn't the ideal since it can 'theoretically' result in surging but I have never experienced this. I have a Turbo Technics VGT fitted to our Disco 2 but on it's own I doubt you would appreciate the cost / benefit ratio it simply wont add much bang for the buck on its own.

It does make the Disco a little more lively for sure but to get the most out of it you need to go much further - Intercooler, Fuel Mapping, remove the EGR and you may need to sort the air flow meter - the system can go into limp mode if the flow meter thinks too much air is being consumed. I simply added a 25mm bypass to supplement and limit flow through the meter since the flow meter is used only for EGR control it takes no part in the fuel equations - and I have no EGR.

The set up I run cost a shade over £2k. TT VGT Turbo, Allard Motorsport large intercooler, EGT removed replaced with silicon and stainless pipework, stainless downpipe (no cat), exhaust manifold trued up and refaced, decent quality manifold studs fitted, 5 Alive boost 'management' box, exhaust gas temperature monitoring and Auber instruments boost gauge, topped off with a remap from Dynachip, serviced the fuel system front to back and use Millers Ecomax cetane additive with all fills. I do have a straight through stainless centre pipe but can't be bothered fitting it.

The car (an 04 model 5 seat ES) currently believed to be around 200bhp and 340lbs/ft, I also get around 32mpg so that's better too.

It makes the Disco very 'driveable' but it still isn't so happy at and around 70mph - the TD5 just feels like it's under duress and the engine is still useless below 1000rpm (before it was useless below 1500rpm).

I did this primarily for towing but it still isn't enough to make me a TD5 fan. The power curve still forces me to use too many rpm and too much clutch to get the thing moving so I'm in the market for a Disco 3 TD6 or Range Rover at the moment.
 
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BenKenobi said:
Previous poster is correct you simply connect the old wastegate feed to the new actuator. This isn't the ideal since it can 'theoretically' result in surging but I have never experienced this. I have a Turbo Technics VGT fitted to our Disco 2 but on it's own I doubt you would appreciate the cost / benefit ratio it simply wont add much bang for the buck on its own.

It does make the Disco a little more lively for sure but to get the most out of it you need to go much further - Intercooler, Fuel Mapping, remove the EGR and you may need to sort the air flow meter - the system can go into limp mode if the flow meter thinks too much air is being consumed. I simply added a 25mm bypass to supplement and limit flow through the meter since the flow meter is used only for EGR control it takes no part in the fuel equations - and I have no EGR.

The set up I run cost a shade over £2k. TT VGT Turbo, Allard Motorsport large intercooler, EGT removed replaced with silicon and stainless pipework, stainless downpipe (no cat), exhaust manifold trued up and refaced, decent quality manifold studs fitted, 5 Alive boost 'management' box, exhaust gas temperature monitoring and Auber instruments boost gauge, topped off with a remap from Dynachip, serviced the fuel system front to back and use Millers Ecomax cetane additive with all fills. I do have a straight through stainless centre pipe but can't be bothered fitting it.

The car (an 04 model 5 seat ES) currently believed to be around 200bhp and 340lbs/ft, I also get around 32mpg so that's better too.

It makes the Disco very 'driveable' but it still isn't so happy at and around 70mph - the TD5 just feels like it's under duress and the engine is still useless below 1000rpm (before it was useless below 1500rpm).

I did this primarily for towing but it still isn't enough to make me a TD5 fan. The power curve still forces me to use too many rpm and too much clutch to get the thing moving so I'm in the market for a Disco 3 TD6 or Range Rover at the moment.
Click to expand...

I'll have your disco 2 then if you dont mind...:D
Sounds like she'll be a gem
 
I simply added a 25mm bypass to supplement and limit flow through the meter since the flow meter is used only for EGR control it takes no part in the fuel equations - and I have no EGR.
Click to expand...

That's in theory but in reality is different... cos if it was so(only for EGR) it means you dont need a bypass to limit the air flow, u can just simply unplug the MAF or get rid of it... in reality if the MAF is fubar'd(no EGR) it affects the addaptive strategy and causes driveability issues.... it's verified ... make a test if you dont believe me... unplug it and ride it so for a while...i have a feeling that even if you'll not feel a big difference in the engine's behaviour you'll not get 32mpg whatsoever
 
I got the 'airflow not used in fuel calculations' from Landrover themselves (well the local stealer) I do agree that there is no concensus whether it is used or not. That is why the MAF on mine is still in place and why I simply installed a small bypass. I was going to have it opened by boost pressure but again that's another job I can't be bothered doing so it's open all the time. I experienced the 'airflow too high' error hence the bypass. When you ramp up the boost the MAF becomes quite restrictive too - it was never intended to deliver the increased air requirements of 2bar+ boost and large intercoolers.

One thing that I didn't mention is that when you start sucking large amounts of air you need to ensure the breather system 'valve' (PCV) is properly functional and not stuck open or passing - I was going to vent it to a catch can because cleaning out the intercooler on the LR is a pain in the hole - but again I can't be bothered - the air getting drawn through the breather is not oil free regardless of the baffles etc in the rocker / cam cover - all my induction pipes have a nice oily film in them now and it ain't from the turbo.

As for the car being a gem - compared to a standard Disco it is - if it had still been standard our relationship would have been very very short, even now it isn't what I'd describe as a good relationship - I've spent in excess of £4.5k getting the car back to an 'acceptable' standard from when I bought it.

I guess my point for the original poster is that a VGT turbo on its own simply isn't worth it, to get the real benefits you need to do a LOT more ....
 
I have an (allard) vnt fitted to my DI and your right on its own it dont do much difference, but with some pump mods and a bigger intercooler it makes the D1 much more drivable and a fair bit faster. was considering putting it on my D2 but dont think im gonna bother
 
I have the bigger intercooler, de-cat and mid box replacement pipe, EGR removed and silicone hoses but with all the gear on it making it 2.3t coupled with the disco transfer box and 33s, I could still do with abit more grunt and more low end torque as it can drop off the power-band easily enough when in 5th or when towing at slower speeds.


Also making up a stainless exhaust manifold in the next couple of weeks for it as the original one is warped so I reckon the turbo should make a nice difference :)

Might get the dual channel boost box from IBR to sort out any problems with the MAF
 
DaveM-sport said:
I have the bigger intercooler, de-cat and mid box replacement pipe, EGR removed and silicone hoses but with all the gear on it making it 2.3t coupled with the disco transfer box and 33s, I could still do with abit more grunt and more low end torque as it can drop off the power-band easily enough when in 5th or when towing at slower speeds.


Also making up a stainless exhaust manifold in the next couple of weeks for it as the original one is warped so I reckon the turbo should make a nice difference :)

Might get the dual channel boost box from IBR to sort out any problems with the MAF
Click to expand...

With 33's you might actually be better off having your ring and pinion ratio's changed, suspect that will deliver better low end torque for considerably less cash than a full stage 3 remap will set you back.

Not sure whether you are still on stock diff's but if you are you're probably not far from trashing one with that wheel setup anyway. 4 pin diff's with HD R&P in a different ratio might be the way to go.
 
Yep, still on original diffs but I like the gearing of the 33s and disco transfer box as I do a good bit of driving at 50-75mph on the motorway etc so I'd be keeping those cwp ratios

In time, I'll upgrade the shafts and diffs when I get a rear locker and possibly a trutrac on the front.


Front axle was rebuilt a little over a year ago with the previous owner but still wouldn't be that confident with it considering I already have had to replace a wheel bearing and tighten the swivels and the gearbox was also done at the same time and lay-shaft is already rattling a fair bit on the over-run.
 
Yea, suppose it my transfer box blew up, it would be an option to just use a standard defender box and an overdrive but I still want more power either way I think :D
Under or over-drives aren't suppose to cope brilliantly with a lot of power either I don't think...

Granted, I know I'll have a standard clutch eaten up in no time (even though that's been replaced along with new DMF last year) and shafts and CVs will struggle especially if lockers are fitted but I don't mind upgrading stuff when needed as have no intentions of selling it anyway :)



Apologies for going a little off topic :eek:
 
Cheers guys im fairly new to td5 .as i bought my first which is a 51 plate es auto .for 850 .with a common oil pump bolt failure .so after removing engine .found crank damaged as well as major turbo wear.hernce why i asked regards these vnt turbos ..im fine at adapting modifying.which ill modify one with a machanical wastegate.
So far another crankshaft from a 15p engine with mains.big ends bolts .sorted oil pump and tgread kocked .also added new timing chain kit..and water pump .hopefully may run ok now ..
 
IRB have a choice of VNT or VGT turbos available. Is there any benefits from either or are they both the same thing really :p

Want to get a new turbo next week but getting a response is proving difficult...
 
VNT is a turbo with moving vanes, a VGT has a door that increases or decreases the amount of gas passing the turbo.

Least ways that's how I understand it ...

Different ways of achieving the same thing but I'd guess the former method would be more efficient but it is considered less reliable especially if you do lots of short trips.
 
Hmmm, not sure as I know what a Varible vane turbo is and how it works but not sure what's the difference between the two as alot of places such as Bell refer to it as both VNT and VGT and that's what's confusing me as the likes of IBR refer to them as two different versions then

I was always under the impression that the VNT had moving vanes and the VGT had fixed vanes but the turbine moved within the housing increasing or decreasing the volume

You sure your not confusing the door the opens the wastegate? :D
You could be right though :)


I do a fair few short trips alright but still would want to go for the better of the two either way :)

In saying that though, I'm pretty good for looking after turbos etc from a background with heavy machinery so second nature to not push something when its cold to prevent damage on the turbo or hydraulics.
 
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thanks for advise everyone , I sold my old td5 auto (51)
and bought a 52 plate td5 auto with later ecu
so far decat
egr blanked
modifying a intercooler
modifying a 3.0 turbo (gtb2260vk)
making a manifold
anyone know ( do I really need a maf) if so why carnt I adjust fueling via a larger maf housing?
whats the max safe boost I can run on a stock td5 (auto engine ) ?
 
Thor1950 said:
Yep 5 alive has them just plug in and 2 bar there you go. But you better go with a larger intercooler, and add a boost gauge and a EGT gauge
Click to expand...

many places have them, but he didnt ask that, and its not 2 bar there you go, they recommend approx 18psi which is around 1.4 bar
 
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