Turbo-disaster

Thanks for the link to that site Tony. I'm with you re: trust issues. If you wanted more power we got bigger engines so haven't had much to do with them. Always thought that anything that spun that fast was asking for trouble but things change. I also remember from years back an electric oil pump that used to go with a remote filter and would pump up oil pressure to the engine before startup. Wonder if they're still around?

LennyK said:

Thanks Ozyboy. How is an accumulator set up. I have only had the Landy a few months so don't know much about it yet except it looks in pretty good condition. I have been very conservative driving it and letting it idle down but that doesnt mean the previous owner has. Have already looked at timers. Does anyone have a suggestion on what to buy?

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there are many different types of accumulators and savours
I installed one on mine I removed the accumulator from an old kabota Falk lift that was being wrecked at work

a accumulator will only fill half way with oil the top part of the accumulator is trapped air that is under pressure ....when the engine turns off the trapped air pushes oil out of the accumulator
shutting down a red hot turbo.... housing of the turbo warps and distorts bearing ..the trapped oil in a hot turbo also boils in the bearing area this is no good for the bearing surface

even though I have a basic accumulator installed I also change my driving style prior to shut and engine oil is always clean

here is mine 4.35 into the vid

Very shmick looking engine and bay you have there. All I can say about mine is it doesn't leak

LennyK said:

Very shmick looking engine and bay you have there. All I can say about mine is it doesn't leak

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I do have a basic system installed I am busy waiting for one of our L150 Volvo front end loaders to be scrapped this has a true turbo savour installed when I don't know

you can purchase replacement cartridges but if the old turbo as damaged your intake snail or exhaust housing a full complete turbo maybe on order

im guessing this engine still has the EGR connected.... when I deleted my EGR it took well over 12 months to get my engine oil clean at the end of the vid
however clean oil doesn't exactly mean the oil is in tip top condition .... but every little thing helps when you want to protect your investment

kommer2013 said:

here you go buddy.
http://eurodiesel.com.au/products/filter/turbo-saviour-oil-accumulator-filter/turbo-saviour/
i never realised you could get something like a acculator it filters the oil again from the main oil filter and then runs into the turbo, and it stores oil up above the turbo so it can slowly run past the turbo bearings after the engine is shut down.
driving easy before you stop the engine will help too, just try to limit the turbo from spooling up before you shut it down, but the accumulator sounds like a very good idea. extra piece of mind that the turbo is getting cleaner oil as the turbo is a vital part well sort of and if that fails your stuffed, and you dont wanna be breaking down out in the middle of nowhere with a failed turbo, i just dont trust turbos to be honest, but anyway everyone is different.
but give that link a try.

Tony.

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it doesn't really need to supplied above the turbo accumulator tanks actually store pressure
the 50 % volume is air trapped this pushes the other 50 % of oil out size of the tank is crucial as this only half fills with oil

regardless of how we protect the turbo eventually they will fail there are to many factors involved and not just shut down times
engine performance and EGTs
bad or clogged air cleaners
clogged exhausts
boost leaks
engine oil quality
driving style also plays a big role and towing loads all its life

the quality of the turbo some are not balanced as well as others

breaking down in the middle of no where the engine can still run in limp mode without a turbo mind you it will be slow drive
all you need to do is stop the oil supply to the turbo this can be easily done by swapping the banjo bolt to a normal bolt that has the same thread pitch

if its a life or death situation vise grips to crush the oil supply

lenny
on a disaster like this remove the intercooler and drain .(just in case ) any oil trapped
I would hate to see you fit a new turbo then come on boost you have a slight engine runaway

My neighbour is involved with HGV maintenance and he says modern turbo's are much less prone to damage from hot shutdown as they have ceramic bearings.

Not sure if this applies to the TD5 though, being a 20 year old design.

lightning said:

My neighbour is involved with HGV maintenance and he says modern turbo's are much less prone to damage from hot shutdown as they have ceramic bearings.

Not sure if this applies to the TD5 though, being a 20 year old design.

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ceramic ball bearing turbos are different to the one on the td5

ozzyboydeano said:

ceramic ball bearing turbos are different to the one on the td5

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Thanks for all the info Ozzy and thanks for taking the time to to put it all down. Have had a look at some saviours and electric oil pumps. A friend had a remote filter and electric pump on a hot V8 years ago and it used to run before start up to bring up oil pressure and reduce wear. Do you thing that might be an idea? Could run it before startup and after shutdown on a timer. I've already got a replacement turbo, a genuine Garrett and no...they have plain pressure fed bronze bushes. I pulled the old one apart and both vanes had damaged their respective housings. I'm also definitely going to follow you in removing the EGR as well. Have been reading up on it and the downside definitely seems to outweigh any benifits. Am going to start taking the intercooler out today for a look before my late shift . Have a bore scope now to have a look inside and will pressure test the system. From what I've read will only need a few pounds and some water to look for leaks and then a clean. Thanks also for the tip about the bolt sealing off the banjo fitting....will carry one for next time hahaha

LennyK said:

Thanks for all the info Ozzy and thanks for taking the time to to put it all down. Have had a look at some saviours and electric oil pumps. A friend had a remote filter and electric pump on a hot V8 years ago and it used to run before start up to bring up oil pressure and reduce wear. Do you thing that might be an idea? Could run it before startup and after shutdown on a timer. I've already got a replacement turbo, a genuine Garrett and no...they have plain pressure fed bronze bushes. I pulled the old one apart and both vanes had damaged their respective housings. I'm also definitely going to follow you in removing the EGR as well. Have been reading up on it and the downside definitely seems to outweigh any benifits. Am going to start taking the intercooler out today for a look before my late shift . Have a bore scope now to have a look inside and will pressure test the system. From what I've read will only need a few pounds and some water to look for leaks and then a clean. Thanks also for the tip about the bolt sealing off the banjo fitting....will carry one for next time hahaha

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sorry mate I wont be able to help you on electric oil pumps I have never had much involvement with them
there was a similer topic on a different forum on the HEUI injectors these injectors need oil preasure to enable ,,he was going to add a centrifuge oil spinner using an electric oil pump ...but Im sure he had issiues finding a pump that could work with the operating temps of the oil he tried to copy from the TD5 engine using a spinner

I do know some high performance race cars that use accumulators they rev the engine to build up oil preassure then shut closed a valve system ..this way when the engine goes to restart they can open the valve to allow the stored engine oil to lubricate engine ...but this is for engines that run at very high tolerances

normally I start engine an let it idle for approx. 30 seconds this allows some of my accumulator to charge also there has been a few occasions where I need to be in a hurry and I have started the engine and quickly drove off ( but we cant win them all LOL)
its a personnel preference on what kind of way you what to install mechanical or electrical

one of the reasons I never wanted to install a turbo timer is that I work shift work ..I didn't want to idle engine for periods of time when coming home 2 or 3 in the morning .... so instead I watch my boost gauge and try and stay off boost when I get closer home
an acumalator tank or turbo savour combined with a turbo timer would be a great set up

the EGR is only in place for emission controls only
the EGR can be easily blanked you can either make your own blanking plate or purchase a full EGR delete kit from ebay

ps even add in a cheap catch can if you can catch 30 to 40 percent of breathing oil this still helps as the oil from the breathing system is contaminated with carbon

ozzyboydeano said:

sorry mate I wont be able to help you on electric oil pumps I have never had much involvement with them
there was a similer topic on a different forum on the HEUI injectors these injectors need oil preasure to enable ,,he was going to add a centrifuge oil spinner using an electric oil pump ...but Im sure he had issiues finding a pump that could work with the operating temps of the oil he tried to copy from the TD5 engine using a spinner

I do know some high performance race cars that use accumulators they rev the engine to build up oil preassure then shut closed a valve system ..this way when the engine goes to restart they can open the valve to allow the stored engine oil to lubricate engine ...but this is for engines that run at very high tolerances

normally I start engine an let it idle for approx. 30 seconds this allows some of my accumulator to charge also there has been a few occasions where I need to be in a hurry and I have started the engine and quickly drove off ( but we cant win them all LOL)
its a personnel preference on what kind of way you what to install mechanical or electrical

one of the reasons I never wanted to install a turbo timer is that I work shift work ..I didn't want to idle engine for periods of time when coming home 2 or 3 in the morning .... so instead I watch my boost gauge and try and stay off boost when I get closer home
an acumalator tank or turbo savour combined with a turbo timer would be a great set up

the EGR is only in place for emission controls only
the EGR can be easily blanked you can either make your own blanking plate or purchase a full EGR delete kit from ebay

ps even add in a cheap catch can if you can catch 30 to 40 percent of breathing oil this still helps as the oil from the breathing system is contaminated with carbon

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Same here Ozzy. I work shifts too and next door has a young fella with autism. If he gets woken up or frightened he wont go back to sleep, poor bugger. I try to be careful but I need to idle my old tank to warm up as well, otherwise it sounds like the engines full of bolts when I accelerate and it doesn't pull well at all. Catch can is definitely on my job list along with deleting the EGR. Might have to pinch one of my sons car

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Sure, l allow the engine to idle for a minute or two after a motorway run. And l change the oil/filters annually.

My TD5 Defender is on 90,000 and the missus's is on 125,000 with the original turbo units still fine.
I doubt that all the five previous owners of my 110 and the four previous owners of the missus's 90 allowed the engine to idle for a while after a run.
Or even thought about the turbo at all.

The gradual warming up or cooling down of turbos on standard production engines is not neceassary, only very high performance engines need such nursing.

Col

Colthebrummie said:

The gradual warming up or cooling down of turbos on standard production engines is not neceassary, only very high performance engines need such nursing.

Col

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please define high performance
so what your saying is regardless the engine is idling.... turbo temps are the same as to an engine at full boost ?

I said very high performance engines, such as those in race competition cars and anything kicking out over 300bhp
The tolerance in those engines are much higher than what we normally drive. I guess if you take any car on a track and give it a good ragging, you will need to cool it gradually by idling it for a while but in ordinary cars on ordinary roads there is no real need. I'm saying this on the assumption that the car in question is relatively well maintained.

Col

Having seen what the oil temps are leaving my turbo on a regular road going car, I think letting it cool for 30 seconds of idling is more than sensible. No need to drive it gently for the last mile (although that wont hurt) but the temperature of the bearings was such that I'd be worried about oil coking inside if they were just turned off and left.

Colthebrummie said:

I said very high performance engines, such as those in race competition cars and anything kicking out over 300bhp
The tolerance in those engines are much higher than what we normally drive. I guess if you take any car on a track and give it a good ragging, you will need to cool it gradually by idling it for a while but in ordinary cars on ordinary roads there is no real need. I'm saying this on the assumption that the car in question is relatively well maintained.

Col

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well I work on most diesel engines and I class them as high performance considering it needs compression to ignite the fuel and not spark plug
you also have to take into consideration a turbo diesel engine manifold never runs in vacuum unlike petrol turbo engines do ..
if you have a boost gauge fitted you will see what I mean so the slightest of engine load the turbo pressure rises on a diesel engine

so when ever there is boost involved means more kinetic energy build up within the exhaust turbine ...after all a turbo works on kinetic energy (heat)
a turbo is a turbo regardless of application

are you saying on this TD5 engine its ok to shut down the engine from a boost load ? as your only saying this on assumption that is well maintained.?

chris-the-gerbil said:

Having seen what the oil temps are leaving my turbo on a regular road going car, I think letting it cool for 30 seconds of idling is more than sensible. No need to drive it gently for the last mile (although that wont hurt) but the temperature of the bearings was such that I'd be worried about oil coking inside if they were just turned off and left.

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Each to his own I suppose. My 3.5l Sorento puts out a little under 200bhp, I don't drive it slowly, it's 13 years old and has done 150,000 miles. I've never nursed the turbo or even changed the oil as often as I should but it is as good as gold. Now I've said that, I bet the bugger will blow up.

Col

Colthebrummie said:

Each to his own I suppose. My 3.5l Sorento puts out a little under 200bhp, I don't drive it slowly, it's 13 years old and has done 150,000 miles. I've never nursed the turbo or even changed the oil as often as I should but it is as good as gold. Now I've said that, I bet the bugger will blow up.

Col

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the more you thrash it egr is not enabled as EGR is not enabled through the entire engine load
we can go off topic about other vehicles we own like my 10 year old TDI ford focus

we can also run off topic about talking fly wheel horse power (BHP)

I never knew the13 year old Sorrento 3.5 v6 had a turbo I only thought the turbo was in smaller diesel versions ?
good luck waiting for your turbo to blow

however the TD5 is a diesel engine not a petrol ..... this engine has different characteristics to a petrol NA engine

I bow to your seperior knowledge of the TD5. I hope mine doesn't blow. I also own a 2.0l turbo diesel so fingers crossed for that anorl.

Col