Transfer case whine - 96 Auto Disco I

On or around Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:35:12 -0500, "Scot Kight" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>If this is the case, then how do I remove the whine? Is a rebuild required?
>
>
>
>I received a response from BritParts inquiring about a mainshaft oil
>feeder---
>
>Generally the t-cases do not whine: that's usually a function of misset or
>mismatched gears. Since they normally clunk, I'm guessing yours is set up
>'too tight'. There really is no way to change that without removing the
>gearbox: even different lubricants won't change it much.
>

hmmm. mine whines *and* clunks. They're not supposed to clunk, really.
But I venture to suggest that they'd not have redesigned the gears to make
'em quieter if gearbox noise wasn't a common problem.

Thats my feeling, though I am still concerned mostly about reducing the
whine. New tires (bridgestone at revos) and a few new exhaust gaskets have
brought me a much more quiet ride. Unfortunately that quiet ride really
shows off the whine!

65-70mph and the whine all but dissapears, below that 50-55 its very loud,
and at a frequency that drives me crazy. I can hear some dog whistles and
this is pretty similar. Not going to be patting the ground with my legs or
anything, but still for a long drive the sound is just unacceptable.

Oh well, I will get the MFO somehow, I think I found another uk company that
is a steve parker reseller who will be able to ship it to me. Just need to
verify this with them and I should have it next week sometime.

Scot



"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:35:12 -0500, "Scot Kight" <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>If this is the case, then how do I remove the whine? Is a rebuild
>>required?
>>
>>
>>
>>I received a response from BritParts inquiring about a mainshaft oil
>>feeder---
>>
>>Generally the t-cases do not whine: that's usually a function of misset or
>>mismatched gears. Since they normally clunk, I'm guessing yours is set up
>>'too tight'. There really is no way to change that without removing the
>>gearbox: even different lubricants won't change it much.
>>
>
> hmmm. mine whines *and* clunks. They're not supposed to clunk, really.
> But I venture to suggest that they'd not have redesigned the gears to make
> 'em quieter if gearbox noise wasn't a common problem.

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:35:12 -0500, "Scot Kight" <[email protected]> wrote:

>If this is the case, then how do I remove the whine? Is a rebuild required?

Oil feeder or not, it won't stop wine, besides it is a landrover
modification anyway, not exclusive to John Parker.

AFIAC, the wine is a characteristic of the transfer box. Some do, some
don't. We once had a 1988 Defender 2.5TD which wined from new.
My 1998 Disco shows sines of wine occasionally especially on the motor
way.

Mick

>Subject: Re: Transfer case whine - 96 Auto Disco I
>From: Mick [email protected]
>Date: 25/11/2004 08:34 GMT

>AFIAC, the wine is a characteristic of the transfer box. Some do, some
>don't. We once had a 1988 Defender 2.5TD which wined from new.

My 13,000 mile late '02 Defender 90 CSW has just gone in to have its whining
transfer box replaced under warranty. <sigh>

Steve. Suffolk.
remove 'knujon' to e-mail

"AN6530" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Subject: Re: Transfer case whine - 96 Auto Disco I
> >From: Mick [email protected]
> >Date: 25/11/2004 08:34 GMT
>
> >AFIAC, the wine is a characteristic of the transfer box. Some do, some
> >don't. We once had a 1988 Defender 2.5TD which wined from new.
>
> My 13,000 mile late '02 Defender 90 CSW has just gone in to have its
whining
> transfer box replaced under warranty. <sigh>

jeez! you'd think after all these years of building them they could get it
right

>Subject: Re: Transfer case whine - 96 Auto Disco I
>From: "George Spigot" [email protected]
>Date: 25/11/2004 19:10 GMT

>jeez! you'd think after all these years of building them they could get it
>right

What is more is that they had to wait 3 weeks for the replacement as they were
on back order from Land Rover as they were having issues with them!

Steve. Suffolk.
remove 'knujon' to e-mail

On or around Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:34:48 +0000, Mick <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:35:12 -0500, "Scot Kight" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>If this is the case, then how do I remove the whine? Is a rebuild required?
>
>Oil feeder or not, it won't stop wine, besides it is a landrover
>modification anyway, not exclusive to John Parker.

The thing under discussion, AFAIK, was designed and marketed by Steve
Parker. It might be that LR did their own similar mod, as was mentioned in
another thread recently, or it might be that they bought 'em from Steve in
order to fit 'em...

some people have reported reduced noise as a result of fitting the kit, so
I'd not rule it out, although in principle gear noise normally comes from
the teeth and the mod. supplies lube to the shaft.

On or around 25 Nov 2004 14:04:13 GMT, [email protected]nujon (AN6530)
enlightened us thusly:

>>Subject: Re: Transfer case whine - 96 Auto Disco I
>>From: Mick [email protected]
>>Date: 25/11/2004 08:34 GMT
>
>>AFIAC, the wine is a characteristic of the transfer box. Some do, some
>>don't. We once had a 1988 Defender 2.5TD which wined from new.
>
>My 13,000 mile late '02 Defender 90 CSW has just gone in to have its whining
>transfer box replaced under warranty. <sigh>
>

hmmm. I'm not sure if the 230Q was fitted to Defenders, although I'd have
expected it to be. Maybe not, as ISTR different ratios, so it might have
been disco-specific. I've got PDFs of the relevant manuals, somewhere,
'angon...

aha. 36D and 37D - discovery. 38D and 40D - defender.

"The LT230Q, whilst similar to the LT230T differs
mainly in the following areas:
Helix angle of gears increased to 31° together with
an increase in the number of gear teeth thus giving
quieter running and an increase in power
transmission efficiency.
Increased length mainshaft input gears together with
increased thickness bearing housing and
repositioned bearing.
Redesigned intermediate gear bearings.
Redesigned high gear bush giving quieter running."

aha. looking at the LT230T one, it lists "oil feeder plate***" in the
parts, where *** is "if fitted".

it don't look like Steve Parker's one, either - wonder if a) it worked or b)
it's available?

In article <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles wrote:
>
> aha. looking at the LT230T one, it lists "oil feeder plate***" in the
> parts, where *** is "if fitted".
>
> it don't look like Steve Parker's one, either - wonder if a) it worked or b)
> it's available?
>

It looks like it would be obvious if it was installed too. I'd never
looked at the pdf for the tbox before now.

I need to get underneath and grease the props so I may take a look at
the same time if I get a chance. As mines at 156,000 I guess its either
got the cross drilled gear or the oil feeder.


--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

Well I have my fingers crossed on this one. My feeling is that if it can
somehow increase the gear oil getting to the teeth, it should reduce the
whine. Basically the whine is a harmonic being created by vibrating metal
somewhat similar to a brake pad squealing. The oil will hopefully provide
some sort of damping to the gear possibly reducing the overall amount of
vibration generated. The crossdrilled shaft may also do this, though by
just being crossdrilled it should change the base resonant frequency with
the weight change.

Of course if it is some other gear in there making the noise, the
crossdrilled shaft will do absolutely nothing, as will the SP oil feeder.

I found a dealer who can ship it, and has it in stock, so I will report back
probably next friday if I get it by then.

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:34:48 +0000, Mick <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:35:12 -0500, "Scot Kight" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>If this is the case, then how do I remove the whine? Is a rebuild
>>>required?
>>
>>Oil feeder or not, it won't stop wine, besides it is a landrover
>>modification anyway, not exclusive to John Parker.
>
> The thing under discussion, AFAIK, was designed and marketed by Steve
> Parker. It might be that LR did their own similar mod, as was mentioned
> in
> another thread recently, or it might be that they bought 'em from Steve in
> order to fit 'em...
>
> some people have reported reduced noise as a result of fitting the kit, so
> I'd not rule it out, although in principle gear noise normally comes from
> the teeth and the mod. supplies lube to the shaft.
>

Austin Hi,

I seem to remember reading about the LR made and sold oil feeder in one of
the LR magazines (in fact I think it was in the LROI but around in the mide
'90's.)

It did have a spare part number of its own but I think it listed as No
Longer Available.
Most probably it has been superceded by the drilled main gear.

As for the reduction in noise, when I had the SP oil feeder installed on my
Discovery (a 1994 200Tdi) it did make a difference on the whining noise from
it. It had NOT reduced it totally but there was a noticeable decrease in its
level. Maybe it had to do with starting using synthetic gear oil on the same
time but even my wife had noted the reduction in noise. (she is mechanicaly
knowledgable and has a very good ear on strange LR noises or the lack of
them)

Take care
Pantelis

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:34:48 +0000, Mick <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:35:12 -0500, "Scot Kight" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>If this is the case, then how do I remove the whine? Is a rebuild
required?
> >
> >Oil feeder or not, it won't stop wine, besides it is a landrover
> >modification anyway, not exclusive to John Parker.
>
> The thing under discussion, AFAIK, was designed and marketed by Steve
> Parker. It might be that LR did their own similar mod, as was mentioned
in
> another thread recently, or it might be that they bought 'em from Steve in
> order to fit 'em...
>
> some people have reported reduced noise as a result of fitting the kit, so
> I'd not rule it out, although in principle gear noise normally comes from
> the teeth and the mod. supplies lube to the shaft.
>

On or around Sat, 27 Nov 2004 07:50:07 +0200, "Pantelis Giamarellos"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>As for the reduction in noise, when I had the SP oil feeder installed on my
>Discovery (a 1994 200Tdi) it did make a difference on the whining noise from
>it. It had NOT reduced it totally but there was a noticeable decrease in its
>level. Maybe it had to do with starting using synthetic gear oil on the same
>time but even my wife had noted the reduction in noise. (she is mechanicaly
>knowledgable and has a very good ear on strange LR noises or the lack of
>them)

yebbut, anyone who drives a Land Rover soon develops a discerning ear for
changes in the noise level.

Helps with our excellent taste in music I guess !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care
Pantelis
"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Sat, 27 Nov 2004 07:50:07 +0200, "Pantelis Giamarellos"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >As for the reduction in noise, when I had the SP oil feeder installed on
my
> >Discovery (a 1994 200Tdi) it did make a difference on the whining noise
from
> >it. It had NOT reduced it totally but there was a noticeable decrease in
its
> >level. Maybe it had to do with starting using synthetic gear oil on the
same
> >time but even my wife had noted the reduction in noise. (she is
mechanicaly
> >knowledgable and has a very good ear on strange LR noises or the lack of
> >them)
>
> yebbut, anyone who drives a Land Rover soon develops a discerning ear for
> changes in the noise level.

>Subject: Re: Transfer case whine - 96 Auto Disco I
>From: Austin Shackles [email protected]
>Date: 27/11/2004 11:17 GMT

>yebbut, anyone who drives a Land Rover soon develops a discerning ear for
>changes in the noise level.

That's only until the Land Rover induced terminal hearing loss sets in!

Steve. Suffolk.
remove 'knujon' to e-mail

Steve parker n' co suggested the noise is from the bearings on the main
shaft. This would make sense to me if the oil feeder reduces the noise a
bit, but not completely by changing the shaft's resonant frequency. Others
have suggest the splines also have something to do with the noise, which
also makes sense to me but they would definitely be changed by proper
oiling. I am going to try to get some grease back in there on the bearings,
but the workshop manual leaves a bit to be desired in terms of how to get
the bearings out. It appears there are some bearings on the shaft, which i
will re-pack easily enough, and then there are some bearings in the tcase
that, well its less than clear what I can do with those. The manual states
"Do not remove these bearings at this time". By the time it starts to
describe removing them, you should have a thousand peices of tcase all
around your garage awaiting you to solve one heck of a heavy jigsaw puzzle.

Oh well, I suppose I should take pictures of this operation and try to add
to the rover technical docs out there if it works.

Scot

BTW: is there anything special about the bearings on the shaft? If they are
gone, do I need a LR offiicial part or is there a much cheaper workable
substitute?

"Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Austin Hi,
>
> I seem to remember reading about the LR made and sold oil feeder in one of
> the LR magazines (in fact I think it was in the LROI but around in the
> mide
> '90's.)
>
> It did have a spare part number of its own but I think it listed as No
> Longer Available.
> Most probably it has been superceded by the drilled main gear.
>
> As for the reduction in noise, when I had the SP oil feeder installed on
> my
> Discovery (a 1994 200Tdi) it did make a difference on the whining noise
> from
> it. It had NOT reduced it totally but there was a noticeable decrease in
> its
> level. Maybe it had to do with starting using synthetic gear oil on the
> same
> time but even my wife had noted the reduction in noise. (she is
> mechanicaly
> knowledgable and has a very good ear on strange LR noises or the lack of
> them)
>
> Take care
> Pantelis
>
> "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:34:48 +0000, Mick <[email protected]>
>> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:35:12 -0500, "Scot Kight" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>If this is the case, then how do I remove the whine? Is a rebuild
> required?
>> >
>> >Oil feeder or not, it won't stop wine, besides it is a landrover
>> >modification anyway, not exclusive to John Parker.
>>
>> The thing under discussion, AFAIK, was designed and marketed by Steve
>> Parker. It might be that LR did their own similar mod, as was mentioned
> in
>> another thread recently, or it might be that they bought 'em from Steve
>> in
>> order to fit 'em...
>>
>> some people have reported reduced noise as a result of fitting the kit,
>> so
>> I'd not rule it out, although in principle gear noise normally comes from
>> the teeth and the mod. supplies lube to the shaft.
>>
>
>

sawdust :O)

George Spigot wrote:

> sawdust :O)

Stick it in the main box, watch the car try to engage all forward gears and
reverse at the same time.

Don't do this. Please.

P.
--
If Mind over Matter is a Matter of Course
Does it Matter if Nobody Minds?

Ok since I am sure everyone here is waiting with baited breath. The steve
parker mainshaft oil feeder did NOT fix the gear whine. Absolutely no
change whatsoever. Neither did repacking the mainshaft's bearings in
grease. Be aware, I am not disparaging SP for their unit, as it still
supplies oil to the shaft and is still "a good thing" for those of us
without the crossdrilled mainshafts. It just does not do anything to remove
any noise in my vehicle.

If anyone else has any advice, please let me know. The whine is driving me
nuts in the 30mph range.

BTW: The mainshaft bearing keeper was "stuck" on in my case because the
service people working on the truck before I purchased must have taken the
PTO cover off for an inspection, and decided some RTV was just as good as
the proper gasket. Once I broke it free from that, it came off.

Scot


"Scot Kight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ZqUod.3929$SA.217@lakeread02...
>I believe I have a classic case of transmission whine. No sound at idle,
>nothing more than I would expect on a D-R clunk, no driveline lash, but
>when under power and driving a whining sound can be heard from the
>transmission tunnel/passenger area. The whining is directly related to
>vehicle speed and not how hard I press the throttle or rpm. Whine is
>elimintated when the throttle is fully lifted.
>
> It increases in volume 30-50mph then is steady to about 60 where it drops
> off again. Unfortunately it can be quite loud, and is right at a grating
> frequency for me.
>
> Tcase has Mobile 1 75w90 gear oil in filled to the proper level.
>
> I was considering trying 75w140 to see if that improved it, but want
> confirmation it wont hurt anything first. I also will probably be
> ordering the mainshaft oil feeder built by Steve Parker
> http://www.steve-parker.co.uk/designed.htm some time in the near future,
> if anyone knows a USA based dealer, please post who in a reply. I am sure
> plenty of people want to know this.
>
> One site suggested filling the tcase 1/2 quart above full to reduce the
> whine. The only way I could think of doing this is to remove the pto
> cover and somehow get more in that way. Possibly taking out the output
> shaft to do it, but I haven't popped the pto shaft yet so I have no idea
> what it looks behind there or if that is even a possibility.
>
>
> If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know.
>
> Scot
>

Scot Hi,

sorry to hear that you have not had a reduction in noise.
But 30 mph sounds a bit slow as a speed to have so much noise generated from
the Tbox.

Have you also checked your automatic gearbox and front/rear axles?

What type of gear oil are you using in your Tbox and axles?

Take care
Pantelis

"Scot Kight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2ynsd.1257$2R3.337@lakeread02...
> Ok since I am sure everyone here is waiting with baited breath. The steve
> parker mainshaft oil feeder did NOT fix the gear whine. Absolutely no
> change whatsoever. Neither did repacking the mainshaft's bearings in
> grease. Be aware, I am not disparaging SP for their unit, as it still
> supplies oil to the shaft and is still "a good thing" for those of us
> without the crossdrilled mainshafts. It just does not do anything to
remove
> any noise in my vehicle.
>
> If anyone else has any advice, please let me know. The whine is driving
me
> nuts in the 30mph range.
>
> BTW: The mainshaft bearing keeper was "stuck" on in my case because the
> service people working on the truck before I purchased must have taken the
> PTO cover off for an inspection, and decided some RTV was just as good as
> the proper gasket. Once I broke it free from that, it came off.
>
> Scot
>
>
> "Scot Kight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:ZqUod.3929$SA.217@lakeread02...
> >I believe I have a classic case of transmission whine. No sound at idle,
> >nothing more than I would expect on a D-R clunk, no driveline lash, but
> >when under power and driving a whining sound can be heard from the
> >transmission tunnel/passenger area. The whining is directly related to
> >vehicle speed and not how hard I press the throttle or rpm. Whine is
> >elimintated when the throttle is fully lifted.
> >
> > It increases in volume 30-50mph then is steady to about 60 where it
drops
> > off again. Unfortunately it can be quite loud, and is right at a
grating
> > frequency for me.
> >
> > Tcase has Mobile 1 75w90 gear oil in filled to the proper level.
> >
> > I was considering trying 75w140 to see if that improved it, but want
> > confirmation it wont hurt anything first. I also will probably be
> > ordering the mainshaft oil feeder built by Steve Parker
> > http://www.steve-parker.co.uk/designed.htm some time in the near future,
> > if anyone knows a USA based dealer, please post who in a reply. I am
sure
> > plenty of people want to know this.
> >
> > One site suggested filling the tcase 1/2 quart above full to reduce the
> > whine. The only way I could think of doing this is to remove the pto
> > cover and somehow get more in that way. Possibly taking out the output
> > shaft to do it, but I haven't popped the pto shaft yet so I have no idea
> > what it looks behind there or if that is even a possibility.
> >
> >
> > If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know.
> >
> > Scot
> >
>
>

The noise is directly related to vehicle speed and not gearing so I doubt it
is the transmission related. It could of course be either diff, but the
sound appears to definitely be coming from the passenger side floor. It
begins at about 15mph, by 30-40mph it is fairly loud, I would estimate 80db
or so, maybe a bit louder, and somewhere around 8000hz. As the vehicle goes
faster, and under load, the sound will increase to about 12khz but not get
much louder at 50mph, by 60mph the sound goes up to about 13khz, but the
amplitude drops dramatically and it can barely be heard any more.



Tcase/Diffs are all using 75w90 Mobile 1 synthetic gear lube. Synthetic ATF
in the transmission. Fluid levels are all correct. All fluid is brand new.

Scot



"Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Scot Hi,
>
> sorry to hear that you have not had a reduction in noise.
> But 30 mph sounds a bit slow as a speed to have so much noise generated
> from
> the Tbox.
>
> Have you also checked your automatic gearbox and front/rear axles?
>
> What type of gear oil are you using in your Tbox and axles?
>
> Take care
> Pantelis
>
> "Scot Kight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:2ynsd.1257$2R3.337@lakeread02...
>> Ok since I am sure everyone here is waiting with baited breath. The
>> steve
>> parker mainshaft oil feeder did NOT fix the gear whine. Absolutely no
>> change whatsoever. Neither did repacking the mainshaft's bearings in
>> grease. Be aware, I am not disparaging SP for their unit, as it still
>> supplies oil to the shaft and is still "a good thing" for those of us
>> without the crossdrilled mainshafts. It just does not do anything to
> remove
>> any noise in my vehicle.
>>
>> If anyone else has any advice, please let me know. The whine is driving
> me
>> nuts in the 30mph range.
>>
>> BTW: The mainshaft bearing keeper was "stuck" on in my case because the
>> service people working on the truck before I purchased must have taken
>> the
>> PTO cover off for an inspection, and decided some RTV was just as good as
>> the proper gasket. Once I broke it free from that, it came off.
>>
>> Scot
>>
>>
>> "Scot Kight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:ZqUod.3929$SA.217@lakeread02...
>> >I believe I have a classic case of transmission whine. No sound at
>> >idle,
>> >nothing more than I would expect on a D-R clunk, no driveline lash, but
>> >when under power and driving a whining sound can be heard from the
>> >transmission tunnel/passenger area. The whining is directly related to
>> >vehicle speed and not how hard I press the throttle or rpm. Whine is
>> >elimintated when the throttle is fully lifted.
>> >
>> > It increases in volume 30-50mph then is steady to about 60 where it
> drops
>> > off again. Unfortunately it can be quite loud, and is right at a
> grating
>> > frequency for me.
>> >
>> > Tcase has Mobile 1 75w90 gear oil in filled to the proper level.
>> >
>> > I was considering trying 75w140 to see if that improved it, but want
>> > confirmation it wont hurt anything first. I also will probably be
>> > ordering the mainshaft oil feeder built by Steve Parker
>> > http://www.steve-parker.co.uk/designed.htm some time in the near
>> > future,
>> > if anyone knows a USA based dealer, please post who in a reply. I am
> sure
>> > plenty of people want to know this.
>> >
>> > One site suggested filling the tcase 1/2 quart above full to reduce the
>> > whine. The only way I could think of doing this is to remove the pto
>> > cover and somehow get more in that way. Possibly taking out the output
>> > shaft to do it, but I haven't popped the pto shaft yet so I have no
>> > idea
>> > what it looks behind there or if that is even a possibility.
>> >
>> >
>> > If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know.
>> >
>> > Scot
>> >
>>
>>
>
>