Tow Ball Question

I have just bought a tipping trailer (Ifor Williams TT126 Max Gross Weight
3500Kg) and the ball is 4 inches higher than the trailer hitch.
Is this a problem?
I am only asking because it seems hard to tow even when empty!! and a bugger
when loaded, I am having to slip the clutch just to pull away(in high ratio)
My vehicle is a 110 Hard Top 300TDi 1997 with 147000 miles on clock, it has
BF Goodrich Mud Terrain Tyres and does seem to ride high.
Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated
Regards
Tom

On or around Sun, 19 Dec 2004 19:14:46 GMT, "Thos" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>I have just bought a tipping trailer (Ifor Williams TT126 Max Gross Weight
>3500Kg) and the ball is 4 inches higher than the trailer hitch.
>Is this a problem?

If the trailer is twin or triple axle, you want it to sit level. Therefore,
you need a drop plate or adjustable hitch for it.

There are several reasons for this, but the most relevant is that with a
4-wheel trailer, it should have 4-wheel brakes, and the less-loaded wheels
will lock up. Also the load on the trailer suspension will be uneven and
the noseweight on the vehicle (should be something between 25 and 50Kg,
normally) will be much too high unless you load the trailer arse-heavy, and
then it'll probably tow like a pig.

in short, yes. get it sorted. I made an adjustable hitch by copying the
design of the one on our disco, it works fine. If your landy hasn't got a
hitch with an alternative set of holes lower down for the ball to mount on,
you'll need to add this. On most 110s, dropping the ball to the lowest
position ought to work, if not, and if you don't want an adjustable one,
then make or get a drop plate. 10mm plate with something like 25x12mm flat
bars welded on the edges so that it looks in section like this:

weld weld
___v____________________________________v___
| | | |
| |____________________________________| |
| |/ \| |
| | weld weld | |
|___| |___|


The width between the 2 sides is about an inch wider than the width of a tow
ball mounting plate

The hole pattern has all 16mm holes, 2 at the top to line up with the pair
in the cross member, then a gap, then 4 in a pattern where the 4 in the
normal hitch are, then one or 2 pairs below that depending on how low you
make it go. On mine, I had 6 bolts: 2 long ones that go through the
crossmember, 4 short ones which will go through the ball, the drop plate and
the hitch holes, you then fit the hitch with 2 of these and put the other 2
in the spare holes from the set of 4. If mounting the ball lower than the
normal bit, use 2 in the bottom pair of holes only.

"Thos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have just bought a tipping trailer (Ifor Williams TT126 Max Gross Weight
> 3500Kg) and the ball is 4 inches higher than the trailer hitch.
> Is this a problem?
> I am only asking because it seems hard to tow even when empty!! and a
bugger
> when loaded, I am having to slip the clutch just to pull away(in high
ratio)
> My vehicle is a 110 Hard Top 300TDi 1997 with 147000 miles on clock, it
has
> BF Goodrich Mud Terrain Tyres and does seem to ride high.
> Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated
> Regards
> Tom
>
>
Unladen the trailer and the tow vehicle should have hitches at about the
same height. The trailer is acting as a lever on the tow vehicle, lifting it
up, raising the back wheels to some extent. Towing would be unstable at
best, at worst downright dangerous. Somewhere in your vehicle handbook there
will be an advisory about "towball/hitch weight" - this is the amount of
weight that the trailer should transfer to your towball, with a towball
higher than the "ideal" trailer height you wont be able to achieve the
towball weight as any weight added to the trailer will tend to lift it
upwards.

You can get a drop hitch for some tow bars - the Series LRs had them fitted
as standard I think. However the modern tubular hitches tend not to lend
themselves to having that type of attachment.

"Thos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have just bought a tipping trailer (Ifor Williams TT126 Max Gross Weight
> 3500Kg) and the ball is 4 inches higher than the trailer hitch.
> Is this a problem?
> I am only asking because it seems hard to tow even when empty!! and a
bugger
> when loaded, I am having to slip the clutch just to pull away(in high
ratio)
> My vehicle is a 110 Hard Top 300TDi 1997 with 147000 miles on clock, it
has
> BF Goodrich Mud Terrain Tyres and does seem to ride high.
> Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated
> Regards
> Tom
>
>

Had same problem on mine ( 110 Tdi 300 csw ). Saw an RAF adaptation of 10mm
plate steel which acted as a drop plate, only problem is to ensure it is
braced properly so as not to get a turning effect when only bolted to the
body at the top end. plate cost ~£15 much cheaper than a dixon bate and fine
as I tow the same trailer all the time so do not need to adjust the height.

"Thos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have just bought a tipping trailer (Ifor Williams TT126 Max Gross Weight
> 3500Kg) and the ball is 4 inches higher than the trailer hitch.
> Is this a problem?
> I am only asking because it seems hard to tow even when empty!! and a
> bugger
> when loaded, I am having to slip the clutch just to pull away(in high
> ratio)
> My vehicle is a 110 Hard Top 300TDi 1997 with 147000 miles on clock, it
> has
> BF Goodrich Mud Terrain Tyres and does seem to ride high.
> Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated
> Regards
> Tom
>
>

As others have said, get a proper hitch drop plate. Don't bodge one yourself
unless you really really know what you are doing.
IIRC all hitches now have to be plated [as in 'officially'] and 'e' marked.
This may not apply to vehicles prior to '97 but at the end of the day it is
your responsibility to find out.
The trailer should not be hard to tow when empty because it probably weighs
only 800kgs or so.

Huw

My Disco 300Tdi Auto battles to tow a trailer that wieghs about 400kgs
empty. As soon as I load it up then it really battles.

Someone on the group described the 3500kgs tow limit as "You must be
joking". I tend to agree based on my experiences, unless you regard driving
in low 4 as normal.'

Regards
Stephen

w" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Thos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I have just bought a tipping trailer (Ifor Williams TT126 Max Gross
Weight
> > 3500Kg) and the ball is 4 inches higher than the trailer hitch.
> > Is this a problem?
> > I am only asking because it seems hard to tow even when empty!! and a
> > bugger
> > when loaded, I am having to slip the clutch just to pull away(in high
> > ratio)
> > My vehicle is a 110 Hard Top 300TDi 1997 with 147000 miles on clock, it
> > has
> > BF Goodrich Mud Terrain Tyres and does seem to ride high.
> > Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated
> > Regards
> > Tom
> >
> >
>
> As others have said, get a proper hitch drop plate. Don't bodge one
yourself
> unless you really really know what you are doing.
> IIRC all hitches now have to be plated [as in 'officially'] and 'e'
marked.
> This may not apply to vehicles prior to '97 but at the end of the day it
is
> your responsibility to find out.
> The trailer should not be hard to tow when empty because it probably
weighs
> only 800kgs or so.
>
> Huw
>
>

My Disco 300Tdi Auto battles to tow a trailer that wieghs about 400kgs
empty. As soon as I load it up then it really battles.

Someone on the group described the 3500kgs tow limit as "You must be
joking". I tend to agree based on my experiences, unless you regard driving
in low 4 as normal.'

Regards
Stephen



I tow a caravan with my 300tdi auto Disco
which must weigh about 1500 kgs loaded and I hardly know its there.
The exception being hills where it does slow down but hey whats the rush
anyway.


--
Simon Mills

98 Disco Tdi auto

On or around Mon, 20 Dec 2004 07:32:32 +0200, "fanie"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Someone on the group described the 3500kgs tow limit as "You must be
>joking". I tend to agree based on my experiences, unless you regard driving
>in low 4 as normal.'

I've had the 110 on the big trailer behind the TDi disco, and I've had the
TDi disco on the big trailer behind the V8 Disco. Ok, we're not talking
cruising at 60, and yes, it's slow uphill - hardly surprising, the trailer
plus load were at least 3 tons. However, or welsh main roads pulling the
other disco back from Bala to here, I didn't resort to low box once. Used
to have to in the 110 before it had the V8, when it was a 2.5 - but that was
partly 'cos of a fault in the gas mixer which didn't get traced 'til after I
took that engine out of it, meaning that it never had the power it
should've.

If your TDi struggles that much, then I reckon it's low on power, or else
the auto box *really* doesn't suit it.

In article <[email protected]>, fanie
<[email protected]> writes
>
>Someone on the group described the 3500kgs tow limit as "You must be
>joking". I tend to agree based on my experiences, unless you regard driving
>in low 4 as normal.'


My recovery trailer weighs in at 700 kg empty and my standard but
196,000 mile Discovery van will pull it with ease. The heaviest I have
had it is with a Disco II on board. With that sort of load it is
sensible and necessary to pull away on a hill in low range. The motorway
inclines really slow it down but with a bit of anticipation a
respectable progress can be made.

3500kgs is asking a lot from a 2.5 Diesel engine but it will do it. Try
doing a days work with a 2.25 petrol series three, now that was amusing
trying to pull the same weights.
--
Marc Draper

"marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, fanie
> <[email protected]> writes
>>
>>Someone on the group described the 3500kgs tow limit as "You must be
>>joking". I tend to agree based on my experiences, unless you regard
>>driving
>>in low 4 as normal.'
>
>
> My recovery trailer weighs in at 700 kg empty and my standard but 196,000
> mile Discovery van will pull it with ease. The heaviest I have had it is
> with a Disco II on board. With that sort of load it is sensible and
> necessary to pull away on a hill in low range. The motorway inclines
> really slow it down but with a bit of anticipation a respectable progress
> can be made.

Similarly my trailer weighs over a ton empty and with a livestock canopy the
wind resistance rises exponentially above 35mph so even my 200hp landcruiser
struggles around 50mph with no payload. OTOH the 67hp naturally aspirated
LR110 regularly tows it full with 'around' a 3.5 ton total weight and has
done for 20 years. There's 'struggling' and there's 'REALLY struggling' LOL

Huw



>
> 3500kgs is asking a lot from a 2.5 Diesel engine but it will do it. Try
> doing a days work with a 2.25 petrol series three, now that was amusing
> trying to pull the same weights.
> --
> Marc Draper
>

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 07:32:32 +0200, fanie wrote:

> Someone on the group described the 3500kgs tow limit as "You must be
> joking". I tend to agree based on my experiences, unless you regard
> driving in low 4 as normal.'

Isn't that why the handbook tells you how to shift from lo to hi on
the move. B-)

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In message <[email protected]>
"fanie" <[email protected]> wrote:

> My Disco 300Tdi Auto battles to tow a trailer that wieghs about 400kgs
> empty. As soon as I load it up then it really battles.
>
> Someone on the group described the 3500kgs tow limit as "You must be
> joking". I tend to agree based on my experiences, unless you regard driving
> in low 4 as normal.'
>
> Regards
> Stephen
>

My 110 tows ok with ridiculous loads, as did my 90 and my
ex regularly tows two horses (in a horse box!) with no
problems, and many of our customers tow a great deal
(farmers - who wouldn't buy them if they couldn't tow).
I've not heard of anyone having to resort to low
box (except moving off in a Td5 on a steep hill - we are
in the Peak District). I'd venture that you vehicle needs
attention if you are having to resort to low 4th.

Richard

> w" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Thos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >I have just bought a tipping trailer (Ifor Williams TT126 Max Gross
> Weight
> > > 3500Kg) and the ball is 4 inches higher than the trailer hitch.
> > > Is this a problem?
> > > I am only asking because it seems hard to tow even when empty!! and a
> > > bugger
> > > when loaded, I am having to slip the clutch just to pull away(in high
> > > ratio)
> > > My vehicle is a 110 Hard Top 300TDi 1997 with 147000 miles on clock, it
> > > has
> > > BF Goodrich Mud Terrain Tyres and does seem to ride high.
> > > Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated
> > > Regards
> > > Tom
> > >
> > >
> >
> > As others have said, get a proper hitch drop plate. Don't bodge one
> yourself
> > unless you really really know what you are doing.
> > IIRC all hitches now have to be plated [as in 'officially'] and 'e'
> marked.
> > This may not apply to vehicles prior to '97 but at the end of the day it
> is
> > your responsibility to find out.
> > The trailer should not be hard to tow when empty because it probably
> weighs
> > only 800kgs or so.
> >
> > Huw
> >
> >
>
>

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

Hi All
Many thankx for a great response,
I have a manual box.
I didnt know I could change from High to Low on move, so will try that.
I am having a drop plate fitted soon.
If it still seems a little under powered, what could be the cause, I know
the engine is high mileage and may be "tired" but should I take it to be
checked on a rolling road or something ??
Once again thanks for taking the time to reply I greatly appreciate it
Regards
Tom

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:dcc2c204d%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "fanie" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My Disco 300Tdi Auto battles to tow a trailer that wieghs about 400kgs
>> empty. As soon as I load it up then it really battles.
>>
>> Someone on the group described the 3500kgs tow limit as "You must be
>> joking". I tend to agree based on my experiences, unless you regard
>> driving
>> in low 4 as normal.'
>>
>> Regards
>> Stephen
>>
>
> My 110 tows ok with ridiculous loads, as did my 90 and my
> ex regularly tows two horses (in a horse box!) with no
> problems, and many of our customers tow a great deal
> (farmers - who wouldn't buy them if they couldn't tow).
> I've not heard of anyone having to resort to low
> box (except moving off in a Td5 on a steep hill - we are
> in the Peak District). I'd venture that you vehicle needs
> attention if you are having to resort to low 4th.
>
> Richard


My personal experience with trailers and my 3.9 auto Rangie is that

a) we had a double sinclair horsebox. Nearly stalled the rangie when it was
empty, but get at least 60kgs of load over the axles and you didnt know it
was there. Turns out one of the axles was slightly bent, and when loaded,
the forces effectively straightened out the problem.

b) 6 months ago we hired a plant trailer, triple axle job. The trailer
itself came it around the 1600kg mark. THought it was going to be a bitch
when we loaded it up (horsey bits and fencing, feeders, gates) once it was
loaded the characteristics didn't change. 60mph was comfortable on the m1
south, and we even averaged 25mpg - well impressed

With trailers I think that the main things are

1) all the axles should be level and all wheels in contact with the deck

2) a nose down or nose up attitude is goin to play merry hell with the
noseweight values, which in turn can lead to odd handling characteristics

3) i'm guilty for not getting my horsebox checked sooner, but a lightweight
trailer that seems to "weigh" far more is very very wrong

Si

On 2004-12-20, fanie <[email protected]> wrote:

> My Disco 300Tdi Auto battles to tow a trailer that wieghs about 400kgs
> empty. As soon as I load it up then it really battles.

Wow, are you sure there are wheels on the trailer?

I've towed an absurdly heavy car transporter trailer which weighted 1
tonne empty, then plonked a 1.2 tonne car on it and towed it around a
bit and my Defender 110 30TDi was great, even with a total tonnage of
2.2 tonnes behind it as well as its own weight. I'm not sure how well
it pulled away though because I had to pull away extremely gingerly
anyway as the trailer's hitch damper was broken so every time you set
off at more than 1 mile per hour, there was an almighty BANG! as the
trailer hitch extended and hit its end stop...

Repeating the performance later with a 700Kg trailer with the same car
was effortless, hardly knew it was there once you were above about
20-30 MPH and getting to that speed wasn't too hard either.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

So Thos was, like

> I didnt know I could change from High to Low on move, so will try
> that.

High to Low on the move is tricky, unless you have had a lot of practice. I
usually stop and do the change stationary. Low to High is much easier, but
find out the correct sequence for your vehicle before you have a go, or you
might be looking at a new transmission.

--

Rich

Pas d'elle yeux Rhone que nous