Tired Battery

I am gonna see if easy start will get me going in these cold mornins.. But only if you guys are sure I ain't gonna get addicted to it.

JonnyP said:

I am gonna see if easy start will get me going in these cold mornins.. But only if you guys are sure I ain't gonna get addicted to it.

Click to expand...

The talk of getting addicted is to do with pre-detonation, people beleve that as you get a bit of pre-det from easy start (where it detonates before going past TDC) this bends con rods and as such lowers compression meaning you need more easy start to get going. Whilst I don't doubt the possibility that after months of using the stuff this could be the case it wont happen straight away and so you will be fine.

As has been mentioned though if you need easy start then theres a problem, it could be glow plugs, injectors or a lack of compression but if you are finding you need to use easy start then you need to diagnose correctly why the engine isnt starting properly.

back in the 80s when i worked in tractor dealership ,in cold weather massey ferguson even new were very poor starters in the cold ,we used easy start as a matter of fact for starting in cold weather ,it never affected there normal starting as soon as weather warmed a little and it wasnt below freezing,and there was never any evidence of any effect when rebuilding any engine

jamesmartin said:

back in the 80s when i worked in tractor dealership ,in cold weather massey ferguson even new were very poor starters in the cold ,we used easy start as a matter of fact for starting in cold weather ,it never affected there normal starting as soon as weather warmed a little and it wasnt below freezing,and there was never any evidence of any effect when rebuilding any engine

Click to expand...

The old laylands and similar use to use an ether starting system that use to dump a bit in on cold starts, again I have never heard of any damage being caused but I keep hearing people banging on about how bad easy start is, think theres some bandwagon jumping going on...

the damage comes from those who don't know how to use the stuff properly, and spray loads of the stuff in there, once saw a bloke turning it over whislt his "assistant" kept his finger on the can just squirting, the engine DID go bang!.
Used properly, a quick squirt, and its fine for short term use, still wouldn't want to use it long term, as has already been pointed out, its just covering symptoms of another issue.

Jongould said:

That 100 amps people refer to is either the AH or the charge rate of the alternator, the battery starting power is measured in cranking amps (CA) or cold cranking amps (CCA), you want about 600 minimum on a land rover diesel. colder weather will knock the CA back a bit and as the batteries get older its cold weather performance will get worse. If in doubt change it, it will only take one cold morning for you to be screwing about it not starting to make it worthwhile....

Click to expand...

Is this correct? 100AH means it has 100 amps for one hour usage or 1amp for 100 hours.

I've never heard anything related to the alternator. AFAIK a discharged battery will take 20-40 amps and then trickle as it it nearly fully charged.

CA is measured at 0C for 30 seconds until voltage hits 7.2 volts
CCA is measured at 0F(-17.7C) for 30 seconds until voltage hits 7.2 volts

Since we go down to minus C during winter, I'd use the CCA rating.

You can also get the battery tested, should be free.. but it need to be charged to at least 12.3V

trax said:

Is this correct? 100AH means it has 100 amps for one hour usage or 1amp for 100 hours.

Click to expand...

Yes ! In principle it means the battery can deliver 100 amps (thats 1200 watts of power @ nominal 12volts P=VxA) for 1 hour or 1 amp for 100 hours (thats 12 watts of power @ nominal 12 volts P=VxA) under ideal circs.

read somewhere that the Numax batteries CCA rating is not quite accurate. Because its essentially a marine battery, its cca ia measured at a different ambient temp, as its always warmer on water than in a frosty valley.

I'm going to be buying a battery soon, so I might as well have a google. Numax says it follows the SAE Cold Start Performance specification which according to them is

Specifies discharge down to 1.2 volts per cell over a period of 30 seconds at -18°C

Marine Cranking Amps specification is

Specifies discharge down to 1.2 volts per cell over a period of 30 seconds at 0°C

Personally, I don't really trust them and would guess that the real CCA will be 800.. which is fine.

jamesmartin said:

back in the 80s when i worked in tractor dealership ,in cold weather massey ferguson even new were very poor starters in the cold ,we used easy start as a matter of fact for starting in cold weather ,it never affected there normal starting as soon as weather warmed a little and it wasnt below freezing,and there was never any evidence of any effect when rebuilding any engine

Click to expand...

Jongould said:

The old laylands and similar use to use an ether starting system that use to dump a bit in on cold starts, again I have never heard of any damage being caused but I keep hearing people banging on about how bad easy start is, think theres some bandwagon jumping going on...

Click to expand...

Not jumping on a band wagon those old diesel/farm tractors and truck did not have a glow plug for each cylinder.

These newer cars with individual glow plugs , by using easy start will burn the glow plugs up in short order as the burn temp is so high on start up. There is even a caution/warning in the owners manual about using easy start with a motor having glow plugs

easy start says dont use the glow plugs if possible on the can.

just put a new on on last week jut before the freezing weather.got it from alpha batteries in Rochdale £100 delivered & 4year warranty,!!!

Hi Rob welcome to the group, would you like to share you story

Yeah I started using easy start with me mates, one of them gave me a try and now I can't stop, it's cost me everything, my house my wife and my defender. I thought I could handle it.......

addicted???

Right, I was recently given a defender and after changing the fuel filter I ended up with an air pocket that just wouldn't clear. I spoke to the mechanic at the garage who recommended a quick squirt of 'easy start' just to get it going and it fired up first go. Never used it before and never needed it since. Landy starts first time regardless of temperature just using glow plugs.

If I've offended anyone by using the e and s words then I'm sooooooooo soooorrrryyyyy. I was just trying to pass on the advice I'd been given. Rant over.. now please can we kiss and make up.

I can however recommend the Bosch battery from euro car parts as it starts it just dandy and cost about 70 sheets

Very good!

Thinks you are fitting right in with this mad house:bounce:

sp00k said:

Which model did you get mate?

Click to expand...

Bit late but it is
Bosch S4 027
660A 70AH

chezvegas said:

Bit late but it is
Bosch S4 027
660A 70AH

Click to expand...

Cheers mate. Not at all - my glow plugs only arrived yesterday so I'll have a go at fitting them tomorrow, wind rain or snow (or all 3). The battery can be plan B. I've been spraying the glows with oil for days and they won't budge at all, so I think it's going to be a whole bunch of fun! I reckon they have been in 18 years. I'm going to have to get out the big breaker bar and be really careful not to snap them. So far, no job I've attempted on the Landy has been straightforward so I could do with a change in luck ;-

Have you got a set of bolt extractors for the glow plugs?

Oldseadog said:

Have you got a set of bolt extractors for the glow plugs?

Click to expand...

I don't like the sound of that! Are they really that likely to shear? I've not read about anyone having that problem on the site.

No. I've only been able to get in with a 1/4" drive so far and not been able to apply much force at all, so I'm hoping that it's just that they need a little more force from a 3/4" or 1/2"

I personally have never managed to shear a glow plug using an extractor as they grip round the flats ... the strongest part of the body.

I have often heard of the tops being broken off though, and obviously, if that happens you've got to remove the remainder!

sp00k said:

I don't like the sound of that! Are they really that likely to shear? I've not read about anyone having that problem on the site.

No. I've only been able to get in with a 1/4" drive so far and not been able to apply much force at all, so I'm hoping that it's just that they need a little more force from a 3/4" or 1/2"

Click to expand...

Run the engine to warm it up first, it usually helps