Timing a series 3 - Help needed plzzz

Ive just fitted an electronic distributor to my series 3 (2.25 petrol engine) and am struggling to get it timed correctly.

Do I set it up as I would a non electronic distributor,using a test lamp.Ive been trying to do this today by setting the correct timing mark then attaching test lamp on the Lt lead between coil & distributor, but the only problem been the lamp constently stays on no matter which way you turn it?

At one point I did have it running but very rough,and it slowly started to over heat is this to do with the engine been set too retarded?, after that it all went down hill and im back at square one.

Any advice is much appreciated as I plan to spend tommorrow tackling this problem in the hope I can remedy it.

Eagerly awaiting your repsonse

pesonally i would say crank the engine over and twist the dist at the same time till it fires up then set it to the correct positio using a timing light
if it constantlly runs like a bag of poo i would check your ht leeds and the earth for the engine as that will have a big effect on the running

pobby said:

pesonally i would say crank the engine over and twist the dist at the same time till it fires up then set it to the correct positio using a timing light
if it constantlly runs like a bag of poo i would check your ht leeds and the earth for the engine as that will have a big effect on the running

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I have been trying this also today mate to no avail,, Originally I did have it running like said but becouse it was running rough I did it again to hopefully rectify and then came back to square one (not been able to get it running at all). Theres is a strong blue spark from each plug so no problems with distributor or coil. Just need to confirm what Ive been doing is correct, ive messed about with it that much now I dont no where I am with it. Am I putting the test lamp on in the correct place? does the test lamp still apply when setting up an electronic distributor? so many questions....:doh:

Thanks for your reply anyway pobby

Just to update:

I emailed simonbbc who I bought the electronic distributor and coil off with some of the questions I had and this is his reply:

With points you can use a test light to set the timing static, with electronic systems you can’t.

You can set the timing dynamic with a strobe light with points ( engine running )and with electronic system you can do the same.

You can set the timing approx as before static, and you will need a strobe light ie + and –ve to strobe and sensor lead to No1 plug lead to set the timing dynamic at idle say TDC and then adjust to max @ 3500 rpm say 24 degree ( depends on the vehicle and engine).

Setting by dynamic is the best and most accurate way to adjust the timing.


So Ive gone ahead and purchased a timing strobe & Tachometer and will have to see where we get when that arrives.

Cylinders 1 and 4 fire both at the tops of strokes when the timing marks are correctly visible.

It is well worth timing the engine exactly as the man says using a strobe triggered by pluglead #1.

Then take the strobe trigger unit and fit it to plug lead #4, and check the timing again. In THEORY it should be identical to cylinder #1, BUT .... it seldom is. The main cause of trouble is the grinding of the little 4-lobed cam in the distributor that opens and closes the points. Often enough you will find these to be 5 to 10 degrees off.

Using electronic systems that cause of trouble isn't used, and so right away the ignition timing in ALL the cylinders is good, not just number 1. Reason number one for fitting leccy ignition.

CharlesY

CharlesY said:

Cylinders 1 and 4 fire both at the tops of strokes when the timing marks are correctly visible.

It is well worth timing the engine exactly as the man says using a strobe triggered by pluglead #1.

Then take the strobe trigger unit and fit it to plug lead #4, and check the timing again. In THEORY it should be identical to cylinder #1, BUT .... it seldom is. The main cause of trouble is the grinding of the little 4-lobed cam in the distributor that opens and closes the points. Often enough you will find these to be 5 to 10 degrees off.

Using electronic systems that cause of trouble isn't used, and so right away the ignition timing in ALL the cylinders is good, not just number 1. Reason number one for fitting leccy ignition.

CharlesY

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Thanks for your input "CharlesY" much appreciated

have you put the dizzy in 180' out or is that not possible in a landy

Put the old dizzy back on and see if you can get the engine to run right, summat else might have gone wrong.

dr pepper said:

Put the old dizzy back on and see if you can get the engine to run right, summat else might have gone wrong.

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My gut feeling is the problem lies elsewhere,,, ie: sucking air in under carb etc etc.... Ive got it running with the new distributor and coil but exactly the same as it was before with the standard distributor. Gonna re torque all head bolts, re set valve clearances, and give everything a good tighten then go from there. Am I right in thinking if its leaking air from under carb, with engine running if I spray a little easy start round where the suspect leak is,, the engine will change in sound to confirm the leak.... or will this not work

Like mentioned previousley once running it runs very rough ( whole vehicle but mostly engine has quite an erratic shake) if I put my foot on pedal after getting up the rev range it seems to sound normal but as the revs drop back to the rough running,, any ideas guys?

will eagerly await your reply

EASY START.

My advice.

NEVER EVER use Easy Start in any engine.

It is di-ethyl ether, and mixed with air it only needs about 5 to 1 compression to set it off into ignition.
Even in a petrol engine with quite a low compression serious damage is likely to occur, and in a diesel with TWENTY to one compression, damage to the rings and pistons may occur the FIRST TIME you use the stuff.

There are far better ways to get a reluctant diesel to go, and there is NEVER a good reason to use Easy Start on a spark-ignition petrol or gas engine.

End of Lecture

CharlesY

We used easy start on a diesel engine at work when it wouldn't start. It made the problem worse because it wouldn't ever start without it and it wanted more and more like it was addicted.

CharlesY said:

EASY START.

My advice.

NEVER EVER use Easy Start in any engine.

It is di-ethyl ether, and mixed with air it only needs about 5 to 1 compression to set it off into ignition.
Even in a petrol engine with quite a low compression serious damage is likely to occur, and in a diesel with TWENTY to one compression, damage to the rings and pistons may occur the FIRST TIME you use the stuff.

There are far better ways to get a reluctant diesel to go, and there is NEVER a good reason to use Easy Start on a spark-ignition petrol or gas engine.

End of Lecture

CharlesY

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I never planned to use the stuff to start it with, just ask as a leak finder so to speak but will now stay clear.

Just as an update:

I re-gapped spark plugs this afternoon 3 of them seemed well out to what they should of been
I also set valve clearances most seemed perfect apart from numbers 3 & 5 which were hellish tight and no where near 0.25 mm as should of been (more like 0.05mm)

Unfortunately my battery's flat and my chargers knackered so haven't been able to give it a go to see if Ive cracked it or not.(not holding my breath like)


Just out of curiosity would the above result in very rough running at low revs?

bowers1986 said:

I never planned to use the stuff to start it with, just ask as a leak finder so to speak but will now stay clear.

Just as an update:

I re-gapped spark plugs this afternoon 3 of them seemed well out to what they should of been
I also set valve clearances most seemed perfect apart from numbers 3 & 5 which were hellish tight and no where near 0.25 mm as should of been (more like 0.05mm)

Unfortunately my battery's flat and my chargers knackered so haven't been able to give it a go to see if Ive cracked it or not.(not holding my breath like)


Just out of curiosity would the above result in very rough running at low revs?

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YES. It very well might.

You can try this trick too.

Take off the distributor cap. Take the King Lead (HT lead) out of the coil.
Turn the crank to top dead centre Number-one firing or just a few degrees before TDC.

Take the longest plug lead out of the distributor cap and push it into the top of the COIL. Put a spark plug in the other end of the plug lead and place it where the body of the plug is earthed and you can see it.

Turn on the Ignition.

Turn the ROTOR ARM back and forward as much as the free play will allow. The movement should be enough that it triggers sparks IF THE TIMING is close. If it SPARKS at the plug the timing is near enough that the engine should run IF THE PLUGLEADS ARE IN THE RIGHT PLACES IN THE CAP.

If it does NOT spark, slacken the distributor clamp and turn the whole body of the thing one way or the other until you do get a cracking spark on the plug. Tighten the clamp. Re-fit the King Lead and the plug lead.

Make sure when you replace the cap that the rotor arm tip is lined up with the Number-one pluglead terminal.

Job Done.

CharlesY

Lecture supported, charles is right.
Easy start spontaneously combusts and tw@ts the pistons so hard that the piston crown is hammered over and crimps the first compression ring, then you lose more compression, and this is why some people say that an engine becomes 'addicted' to easy start.
Cheap wd40 will work, not actually wd40 but one of the cheap copies, you can actually run an engine off it at idle, I use it for testing for ignition or fuelling problems.
Fairly sure you've a carburation problem, have you done a compression test to see if one of the pots is down?, might be an idea first.
And I'd be strongly inclined as I said to make her run right with the old dizzy, in fact everything as it should.

Just to give you all an update:

Took the electronic distributor off today and installed the original one as still couldn't get it to fire. Anyway set the old on up and she fired up after a few tries and runs as smooth as ever and very quiet with no shaking Im gonna time it tomorrow using strobe to get it 100%. Had it ticking over this afternoon and let it warm up,,I did notice soon as I put my foot on accelerator she wouldn't rev up,, instead wanted to stall (any ideas before I go fiddling about tomorrow). Anyway as weather was freezing I called it a day and will have another go tomorrow,,

advance system?

The Mad Hat Man said:

advance system?

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Now you mention it,,,,I dont think the pipe was attached,,,,will try that tomorrow,,,cheers mate.

Refitted vacuum pipe and set timing using a strobe this afternoon, now it does seem a little better but but not as responsive as before when pressing the accelerator pedal in,,,sort of sputters a little bit then revs. Also re-did all valve clearances and she ticks over better than ever, although after left ticking over for some time I see she started creeping back up to the red (over heating) basically back to square one hence changing head gasket. Thermostat is new, water pump was removed and all seemed ok (all vains intact) head gasket just changed, fan belt tight and not slipping. Im sure this cant be much but dont know what to check now? Help much appreciated.

Radiator not steaming like before and not really pressurizing ,even when red hot you can slowly let the pressure out with a cloth round cap and remove cap with out water spewing out like previously. No actual coolant loss and no smoke/steam of any colour from exhaust.

That is the classic descripion of the Carb ACCELERATOR PUMP not working.

When you open the throttle the very light AIR rushes in immediately but the relatively heavy PETROL lags way behind the air, and the mixture becomes so lean the engine goes as flat as a pancake. It may backfire into the carb, which can start an engine fire. If you open the throttle very slowly and gently it may pick up speed quite well.

Open up the air system till you can look right down into the carburettor venturi.
While peering in, open the throttle wide open and hold it open. You should see a jet of fuel like out of a water-pistol being sprayed dowwards into the manifold, and this should last several seconds.

If there is no jet of fuel, the accelerator pump isn't working. Fix it.

CharlesY

What makes a good engine run HOT.

1. LEAN MIXTURE.

2. IGNITION TIMING LATE ... RETARDED.

Those are the two top suspects every time.

CharlesY