Time to be worried...

... be very worried

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece

[Quote:] By next March a central database installed alongside the Police
National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35
million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and
precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning
satellites.

"What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in
the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular
location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes. Particularly
important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.

The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or
trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to be
of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive somewhere in
a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy to commit
further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen vehicle.
You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley
explained. [End quote]

So I'm driving up the M4 and I happen to be passed by a BMW with some known
criminals in. That makes me, not a suspect, but someone "of interest" to
the police.

Jeez.

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)

....and Dougal spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> Richard Brookman wrote:
>
>> ... be very worried
>>
>> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece
>>
>> [Quote:] By next March a central database installed alongside the
>> Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the
>> details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will
>> include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored
>> by global positioning satellites.
>>
>> "What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle
>> was in the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a
>> particular location, and the routes taken to and from those crime
>> scenes. Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley
>> said. The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars,
>> vans
>> or trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already
>> known to be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will
>> drive somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back
>> in convoy to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily
>> interested in the stolen vehicle. You're interested in what's moving
>> with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley explained. [End quote]
>>
>> So I'm driving up the M4 and I happen to be passed by a BMW with
>> some known criminals in. That makes me, not a suspect, but someone
>> "of interest" to the police.
>>
>> Jeez.
>
> Ah, but it's only for our own good! Tone says so - so it must be all
> right.

Thank God for that. I was beginning to think we were living in a
dictatorship for a minute. Must have all been a dream.

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)

Richard Brookman wrote:

> ... be very worried
>
> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece
>
> [Quote:] By next March a central database installed alongside the Police
> National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35
> million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and
> precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning
> satellites.
>
> "What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in
> the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular
> location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes. Particularly
> important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.
>
> The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or
> trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to be
> of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive somewhere in
> a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy to commit
> further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen vehicle.
> You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley
> explained. [End quote]
>
> So I'm driving up the M4 and I happen to be passed by a BMW with some known
> criminals in. That makes me, not a suspect, but someone "of interest" to
> the police.
>
> Jeez.

Ah, but it's only for our own good! Tone says so - so it must be all right.

Richard Brookman <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
about:
>>> So I'm driving up the M4 and I happen to be passed by a BMW with
>>> some known criminals in. That makes me, not a suspect, but someone
>>> "of interest" to the police.
>>>
>>> Jeez.
>>
>> Ah, but it's only for our own good! Tone says so - so it must be all
>> right.
>
> Thank God for that. I was beginning to think we were living in a
> dictatorship for a minute. Must have all been a dream.

I'm sure there are a few people of late on this news group who would welcome
the unleashing of this technology. Nothing to fear here, though they may
catch me sneaking home ten minutes early followed by a convoy of similarly
minded bretheren.

Lee

Lee_D <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> Richard Brookman <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
> about:
>>>> So I'm driving up the M4 and I happen to be passed by a BMW with
>>>> some known criminals in. That makes me, not a suspect, but someone
>>>> "of interest" to the police.
>>>>
>>>> Jeez.
>>>
>>> Ah, but it's only for our own good! Tone says so - so it must be all
>>> right.
>>
>> Thank God for that. I was beginning to think we were living in a
>> dictatorship for a minute. Must have all been a dream.
>
> I'm sure there are a few people of late on this news group who would
> welcome the unleashing of this technology. Nothing to fear here,
> though they may catch me sneaking home ten minutes early followed by
> a convoy of similarly minded bretheren.
>
> Lee

stop press....

It has just occured to me they may read our next meet as an Invasion via the
back door... best send'em an invite too!

Lee

Which will be very useful if someone nicks my landie,

As for crims driving with me, they'll be the ones stuck behind trying to
overtake I suspect as I crawl up a hill at 20 mph


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ... be very worried
>
> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece
>
> [Quote:] By next March a central database installed alongside the Police
> National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35
> million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and
> precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning
> satellites.
>
> "What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in
> the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular
> location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes.
Particularly
> important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.
>
> The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or
> trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to
be
> of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive somewhere
in
> a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy to commit
> further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen vehicle.
> You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley
> explained. [End quote]
>
> So I'm driving up the M4 and I happen to be passed by a BMW with some
known
> criminals in. That makes me, not a suspect, but someone "of interest" to
> the police.
>
> Jeez.
>
> --
> Rich
> ==============================
> Disco 300 Tdi auto
> S2a 88" SW
> Tiggrr (V8 trialler)
>
>

Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote in
news[email protected]:

> Richard Brookman wrote:
>
>> ... be very worried
>>
>> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece
>>
>> [Quote:] By next March a central database installed alongside the
>> Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the
>> details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will
>> include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored
>> by global positioning satellites.
>>
>> "What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle
>> was in the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a
>> particular location, and the routes taken to and from those crime
>> scenes. Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley
>> said.
>>
>> The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans
>> or trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already
>> known to be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will
>> drive somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back
>> in convoy to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily interested
>> in the stolen vehicle. You're interested in what's moving with the
>> stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley explained. [End quote]
>>
>> So I'm driving up the M4 and I happen to be passed by a BMW with some
>> known criminals in. That makes me, not a suspect, but someone "of
>> interest" to the police.
>>
>> Jeez.
>
> Ah, but it's only for our own good! Tone says so - so it must be all
> right.

And how long DOES it take to change a number plate? But I don't expect
that has occurred to the little dears...

Derry

"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ... be very worried
>
> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece
>
> [Quote:] By next March a central database installed alongside the Police
> National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35
> million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and
> precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning
> satellites.
>
> "What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in
> the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular
> location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes.
> Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.
>
> The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or
> trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to
> be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive
> somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy
> to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen
> vehicle. You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr
> Whiteley explained. [End quote]
>
> So I'm driving up the M4 and I happen to be passed by a BMW with some
> known criminals in. That makes me, not a suspect, but someone "of
> interest" to the police.
>
I think you only become 'of interest' when you travel the same route as the
BMW for some time. To follow up every single vehicle that the crims have
passed on their journey would be nigh on impossible.

Of course, now they have made this info public, the crims will avoid
travelling the same route back from a crime, and will all be running false
plates!

In message <[email protected]>
"SimonJ" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > ... be very worried
> >
> > http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece
> >
> > [Quote:] By next March a central database installed alongside the Police
> > National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35
> > million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and
> > precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning
> > satellites.
> >
> > "What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in
> > the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular
> > location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes.
> > Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.
> >
> > The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or
> > trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to
> > be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive
> > somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy
> > to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen
> > vehicle. You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr
> > Whiteley explained. [End quote]
> >
> > So I'm driving up the M4 and I happen to be passed by a BMW with some
> > known criminals in. That makes me, not a suspect, but someone "of
> > interest" to the police.
> >
> I think you only become 'of interest' when you travel the same route as the
> BMW for some time. To follow up every single vehicle that the crims have
> passed on their journey would be nigh on impossible.
>
> Of course, now they have made this info public, the crims will avoid
> travelling the same route back from a crime,
> and will all be running false plates!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Which is a dead giveaway that they are worth a look at!

>
>

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

Lee_D wrote:
> Richard Brookman <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
> about:
>>>> So I'm driving up the M4 and I happen to be passed by a BMW with
>>>> some known criminals in. That makes me, not a suspect, but someone
>>>> "of interest" to the police.
>>>>
>>>> Jeez.
>>>
>>> Ah, but it's only for our own good! Tone says so - so it must be all
>>> right.
>>
>> Thank God for that. I was beginning to think we were living in a
>> dictatorship for a minute. Must have all been a dream.
>
> I'm sure there are a few people of late on this news group who would
> welcome the unleashing of this technology. Nothing to fear here,
> though they may catch me sneaking home ten minutes early followed by
> a convoy of similarly minded bretheren.
>
> Lee

The Police caught the scum that shot the Policewoman here in Bradford a month or so ago with ANPR, so i
have no objections to things like this if they are proven to work for the intended use etc. My mate (an
inspector) did tell me that's what the 'ring of steel' was setup for here in Bradford! Seems to work when
it needs to.

The Police used to setup a ANPR trap outside our house, they used to catch all manner of tax dodgers,
uninsured & just scummy type drivers, most got carted off for 'other' things as well!! It used to provide
me some entertainment on a Sunday afternoon working on my fully legal & taxed cars!!

If you're doing nothing wrong, why worry.

--
Subaru WRX
Range Rover LSE (Bob)

'"gimme the f*ckin' money"

....and Nige spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> If you're doing nothing wrong, why worry.


I've heard that argument a lot lately. APNR is great technology, and if it
catches a few bad 'uns then that will be a good thing. If you and I (and
the rest of the chums here on the group, cos we're all good guys here) were
operating it, I am sure it would be 100% acceptable. But the cost of
implementing this across the UK will be huge, and can you really believe
they will restrict its use to catching a few tax dodgers and the odd bank
robber? We're on the verge of giving up a lot of our freedoms in the name
of the War Against Terror (tm), and I'm not the only one who is deeply
worried about the way things are going.

To put it simply, if it's used to catch criminals, than I'm fully behind it.
If it's used to gather and keep lots of data about the population which
could be later used to investigate "troublesome elements", then I'm pretty
frightened. My money's on the latter.

If someone had told you in 1995 that in ten years' time the police (with the
full backing of HMG) would arrest and prosecute and convict a lone woman for
simply and peacefully reading out a list of names of dead soldiers near the
Cenotaph, you would have said they were paranoid - this is Britain, matey,
we don't do that kind of thing. Well, we do now.

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 10:40:23 -0000, Nige wrote:

> If you're doing nothing wrong, why worry.

I agree to some extent but what if some scum bag put your plates on a
similar car? After all that is the obvious thing to do.

It'll be your problem to prove that you wern't where the ANPR system
says you were. Those with a family or hectic social lives might be in
with a chance but how about the many single people living alone, who
can't afford to socialise 24/7...?

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 10:40:23 -0000, Nige wrote:
>
>> If you're doing nothing wrong, why worry.
>
> I agree to some extent but what if some scum bag put your plates on a
> similar car? After all that is the obvious thing to do.
>
> It'll be your problem to prove that you wern't where the ANPR system
> says you were. Those with a family or hectic social lives might be in
> with a chance but how about the many single people living alone, who
> can't afford to socialise 24/7...?

I got a red light offence ticket for my RRC previous owner from Kent Police wanting me to give them his
details, i rang them up & asked why they want ME to give them the details (I didnt own the car at the
time) I told the snotty bitch on the phone there was no way i was giving them info they could easily find
themselves. The cow then said they would pursue me. I was in Sheffield the day in question, in a Subaru
WRX fixing a CCTV & fire alarm system. I told her to do as she wishes & I'll report her for wasting
Police time if i even get so much as another letter.

Tossers like that make me puke. The bloke ran a red light, maybe not even knowing & they try it on with
me???

She shut the feck right up when i told her i had CCTV dated & timed evidence & could provide any amount
of witnesses.

Nige

--
Subaru WRX
Range Rover LSE (Bob)

'"gimme the f*ckin' money"

On 2005-12-24, Nige <[email protected]> wrote:

> If you're doing nothing wrong, why worry.

Tell that to the chap on the tube train with 9 bullets in his head.
If you become the object of suspicion due to official ineptness, then
you'll have the problem of trying to free yourself from it, proving
your innocense. Currently, if you are suspected of committing a crime
that might have a computing element (e.g. hacking, financial,
organised crime etc), the police will take all your computer equipment
and, due to massive backlogs, will take months to look at it while you
are in prison on remand. If they find a file that they can't decipher
then if they think it's an encrypted file you'll be told to give the
password or have your withholding the password used in evidence
against you. If you don't have the password, it's assumed that you're
lying and being obstructive.

Even with minor traffic offences, if they post you a NIP and the post
office loses it, you get done as it's assumed that once they've sent
it, then you've got it. This was a cost-cutting amendment added to
the RTA a few years back after forces got bored with having to send
NIPs via registered post and having to prove that the recipient
received it. So they wrote an amendment that states that it's OK to
assume you've got it even though they send it via second-class post to
save pennies.

With the London Congestion Charge, if you know nothing about it and go
into London, then realise that it exists and needs to be paid but
you've just done a day's work and are now driving for four hours to
get home, you'll find that the next day is too late to pay it and you
now have to pay a fine or risk prosecution. This caught me out as I
don't live in London and don't travel there much, but it's assumed
that you know the rules despite that. There is an appeals process but
you're limited to four tick-boxes that give accepted reasons, and none
of them include "I don't live in London you bastards".

The more laws we have, the harder it is to be law-abiding. Most of
this traffic camera **** is similar to the crap we have to put up with
regarding green laning, laws that trap the law-abiding and not the
criminals. Criminals will just copy plates from other cars and then
if you're chosen as the donor, you'll be in the **** and have to hope
that you can prove that you are innocent.

I read an article either on the beeb or the guardian website some time
ago about a journo who got caught speeding and went to court, he was
surprised that the only people waiting to be tried in the batch that
he was in were all white middle-class males like him. The court
officers told him that they were the only ones who they were able to
catch up with as they were honest enough to reply truthfully to the
demands of the police, and chasing up the liars wasn't worth the
police time..

So what you have to fear is the misuse of the convenient and easily
faked means of identification that the police are increasingly using
to automatically process people in the search for people to arrest.
Policing by computer relies on easy identification of "asset tags" and
the assumtion that you are responsible for every move of that asset
tag. If one of your asset tags is processed as being involved in a
criminal act, you'll have to prove the computer wrong.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

....and Ian Rawlings spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> I read an article either on the beeb or the guardian website some time
> ago about a journo who got caught speeding and went to court, he was
> surprised that the only people waiting to be tried in the batch that
> he was in were all white middle-class males like him. The court
> officers told him that they were the only ones who they were able to
> catch up with as they were honest enough to reply truthfully to the
> demands of the police, and chasing up the liars wasn't worth the
> police time..

Exactly. This is what you get when you manage by targets rather than common
sense and letting the people who know the job get on with the job. And it's
why, despite a record number of speeding fines and convictions, the death
rate on UK roads is not falling. In effect, the honest and (otherwise)
law-abiding motorists have contributed a wedge of cash to the Treasury, and
the overall level of safety on our roads has not been affected. The really
dangerous drivers are still out there.


--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)

Nige wrote:

> If you're doing nothing wrong, why worry.

Tell you what, I'll come round, and stand behind you all the time, just
watching, when you go to bed. when you have a ****, when you eat, while
you watch telly, when you drive, I'll be in the back seat, watching, and
recording your every action.

But you're doing nothing, so don't worry. And I'll do it all your life,
when you are at the ballot box, when you fill in your tax return. I'll
be there just watching.

Steve

"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Nige wrote:
>
>> If you're doing nothing wrong, why worry.
>
> Tell you what, I'll come round, and stand behind you all
> the time, just watching, when you go to bed. when you have
> a ****, when you eat, while you watch telly, when you
> drive, I'll be in the back seat, watching, and recording
> your every action.
>
> But you're doing nothing, so don't worry. And I'll do it
> all your life, when you are at the ballot box, when you
> fill in your tax return. I'll be there just watching.
>
> Steve

And I will be recording all your mobile phone calls - times,
locations and numbers. I'll also be recording all your
banking transactions (I will take a picture of you every
time you withdraw cash) I will store all your text messages
but just in case I'll keep an eye on all your Emails. Just
to be completely safe I will record all international calls
and filter them for key words overnight.

So I know all about you all of the time........

Richard

"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Nige wrote:
>
>> If you're doing nothing wrong, why worry.
>
> Tell you what, I'll come round, and stand behind you all the time, just
> watching, when you go to bed. when you have a ****, when you eat, while you
> watch telly, when you drive, I'll be in the back seat, watching, and recording
> your every action.
>
> But you're doing nothing, so don't worry. And I'll do it all your life, when you
> are at the ballot box, when you fill in your tax return. I'll be there just
> watching.
>
> Steve

You'll just lay yourself open to a charge of aiding and abetting.


--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!

>> Of course, now they have made this info public, the crims will avoid
>> travelling the same route back from a crime,
>> and will all be running false plates!
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Which is a dead giveaway that they are worth a look at!
>
How is it a dead giveaway?

On 2005-12-24, SimonJ <[email protected]> wrote:

> How is it a dead giveaway?

If the plates read "I am a crook, catch me". However if they're
copies taken from an identical make/model of car in the same colour,
not quite so much of a giveaway.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!