Disco 2 Three Amigos refuse to die

So last week (at the same time as the ACE pump dying) I also got the thee Amigos a little while before completely breaking down, I thought I had found the cause of this as the seal on the front passenger side was dead so I replaced the seals on both sides of the front axle and the ABS sensors for good measure.

Went to start her up, and the three amigos are still showing! Tried an OBD2 scanner, albeit a cheap one and no codes were displayed. I also bought a slightly more expensive wifi OBD2 device and have tried a few phone apps, the ones that do connect don't cover ABS issues, and the ones that do cover ABS issues don't support either the OBD2 device I have or Land Rover Discovery's.

I don't want to just keep going through replacing sensors and pumps until I've replaced the entire ABS system, so does anyone know anything I can try to determine whats actually causing the 3 Amigos?

Thanks

Firstly, D2s are not OBDII compliant. In order to read fault codes correctly and diagnose your LR you will need to connect a dedicated LR diagnostic tool. Nanocom is probably the best, Hawkeye Total slightly less capable, but cheaper and will diagnose most ECU equipped LRs up to L402 Range Rovers. You might find someone with one near you who can assist.
Secondly, the Amigos can come on for a wide range of issues and without diagnosing the problem properly it could take a lot of time and money before you get lucky and replace the right component.
If you download the RAVE service docs - lots of links on this site if you search, it will explain the system clearly and let you analyse the diagnosis and fix the fault.

As said without knowing the exact cause any actions would be just guessing, but a free and easy fix is the 'option b' svs switch mod. It doesn't have any downside and will rule out the shuttle valve switch connection issue that is quite common.

Si Click said:

Firstly, D2s are not OBDII compliant. In order to read fault codes correctly and diagnose your LR you will need to connect a dedicated LR diagnostic tool. Nanocom is probably the best, Hawkeye Total slightly less capable, but cheaper and will diagnose most ECU equipped LRs up to L402 Range Rovers. You might find someone with one near you who can assist.
Secondly, the Amigos can come on for a wide range of issues and without diagnosing the problem properly it could take a lot of time and money before you get lucky and replace the right component.
If you download the RAVE service docs - lots of links on this site if you search, it will explain the system clearly and let you analyse the diagnosis and fix the fault.

Click to expand...

Okay, thanks for setting me straight. The port looks like OBDII so I thought it was OBDII I'm sure I'm not the first to make this mistake.

I agree that guessing is not the way to go, hence why I posted on here. I fixed the leaking axle and the two front ABS sensors as it was obvious that they were an issue. I would like to diagnose the issue before doing anything more to fix it however I don't want to have to spend £300+ on a diagnostics tool I may only use once or twice. Nanocom, Hawkeye, Lynx Evo etc. all seem like capable tools but the price tag makes them not feasible.

brianconwy said:

As said without knowing the exact cause any actions would be just guessing, but a free and easy fix is the 'option b' svs switch mod. It doesn't have any downside and will rule out the shuttle valve switch connection issue that is quite common.

Click to expand...

Hi, What is the SVS switch mod? I won't do it until I've had the chance to diagnose my issue, but would like to read up on it.

Option is knowing someone with the correct reader or a local garage that will charge a fee to read your problems.

saxavordian said:

Option is knowing someone with the correct reader or a local garage that will charge a fee to read your problems.

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Yeah just asking about at the moment, alternatively if anyone in the Leeds area is reading this and you have a diagnostic tool please let me know

SVS mod option B attached

leeorglory said:

I don't want to have to spend £300+ on a diagnostics tool I may only use once or twice.

Click to expand...

To be honest, if you keep the D2 more than a year or so you'll almost certainly save more than the cost of the Nanocom etc.

There is a tool called a Scantool, which is much cheaper than a Nanocom or a Hawkeye, Google it and you will see. It is what I bought on the recommendation of a member who has already contacted you. I paid £200 but you can get them cheaper. Also, if you pay to download other soft ware it works on other cars too, which is a bonus. It may not do all that the other ones can do but it does cover the three Amigos, and honestly seems to cover everything I think I will need. Ring them up to see what they cover and then compare that with what the others cover. Helped me to solve my 3 Amigos problem. As the others said, it rapidly becomes a "must have" tool with a Disco 2.
Just one thing, replacing just the sensors may not work as disturbing the sensors, on its own, may cause the problem, they are very finicky about their position in relation to the reluctor ring apparently. As everyone else is saying, the OBD11 port is a snare and a delusion, Land Rover did not have to be OBD11 compliant at that time, and it certainly isn't!
A one off visit to a garage to have the codes read, is not too much money, but often once is not enough, as I found out! So a few code readings in a garage soon catches up with the price of buying your own code reader. Totally agree with iansoady on what he said, and you must get the codes read before spending any more money.

The hawkeye, nanocom and lynx can also power bleed brakes which is one of the reasons I bought mine. They can also reprogram key fobs and work windows etc. from the bcu. If you get a problem you can then use the tool to see if the problem is switchgear or ellsewhere.

As I understand it, OBD and OBD2 are concerned with engine emissions and control data; most of the data flying around between the several 'computers' on a Disco uses CANbus protocol, and that's why a simple OBD scanner won't help with ABS (that's the SLABS module). As said before, a good read of the Rave manual will not only give you a good understanding of the Disco's sophistication, it'll most likely cure insomnia!
You can measure the DC resistance of each ABS sensor from the SLABS module, the RAVE manual has details of the connector/pins and the acceptable values. At £200 plus each I certainly wouldn't want to change them on a whim.

I thought CAnBUs was the network communications system that allows various bit around the car to communicate with the ECU and BCU etc, and OBD2 is the on board diagnostics protocol; for connecting to readers.

I thought the only CANBus system was the linkage to an auto box?

The TD5 diagnostics communicates with the ISO 9141-2 protocol on a single wire K-line through pin 7 of the OBD socket. AFAIK, the TD5 does not support CAN at all, not even internally.

Pretty sure the auto transmission communicates to the ECU through CAN.

NPG said:

The TD5 diagnostics communicates with the ISO 9141-2 protocol on a single wire K-line through pin 7 of the OBD socket. AFAIK, the TD5 does not support CAN at all, not even internally.

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1. Actually it's ISO14230 protocol(Keyword 2000 or KWP) and the single line is splitted to each ECU separately
2. Dont confuse CAN-BUS diagnostics(which is about the diagnostic link and protocol) with the vehicle's CAN cos as @Si Click mentioned there is a CAN bus within the D2's harness for automatic gearboxes. So to clarify: the D2 is not CAN-BUS diagnostics compliant while it has a CAN on auto modells, for example Freelander 1's(and many other older vehicles) also have CAN between ECUs but they are not CAN-BUS diagnostic compliant as long as the diagnostic link and protocol is on single wire (KWP).

@Si Click, @sierrafery

Apologies for my assertion on the CAN - you are of course correct. It's just that I drive a manual and never looked into how the EAT interfaces with the ECU. It seems to me that this is the only instance where CAN is used on a TD5.

As to ISO 14230, this uses a physical layer which is identical to ISO 9141-2, so it might well be the implementation protocol on the OBD interface. From the work done by the open source community on the TD5 ECU (which I follow closely), they certainly use ISO 9141-2 to communicate with the ECU. Maybe ISO 14230 is used on the upper layers for session management and to multiplex between modules on the K-line ? Here' s one of the open source projects that unfortunately has been discontinued 2 years ago - https://github.com/EA2EGA/Ekaitza_Itzali

Cheers

No worries, watch @OffTrack cos IMO he rules with this: https://www.aulro.com/afvb/electronic-diagnostic-systems/240456-td5-obd2-reversing.html

@sierrafery - Thanks for the very informative link. You are right - the protocol in use is ISO 14230 - in fact the keygen algorithm is based on that protocol format and handshake (https://github.com/pajacobson/td5keygen). I suppose then that the ISO 9141-2 reference came in due to the overlaps of the 2 protocols in the physical (and perhaps also in the data link) layer specifications.

Cheers

NPG, Sierrafery, so lovely to hear all this. Don't understand a word, but this language has a lilt to it all of its own!!!!! (So glad there are guys like you amongst the members, where common-or-garden, shed mechanics like me would be completely stuffed by what seems like rocket science.)