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The Paint Man Paints

Discussion in 'General Land Rover Forum' started by Rorie, Aug 21, 2018.

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  1. Rorie

    Rorie Active Member

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    I have been rebuilding my defender and read (on here I think!) about The Paint Man and advised to go down that route.

    I've spent the last year rebuilding and painting as a go. Spent a lot of money on the paint, but also the time!

    I've found a few issues where I cannot polish (as normal after painting) or it takes the paint off and the paint is 'soft' and marks very easily.

    I gave my bonnet to a good paint shop locally to save time. I have just gone to collect it and all he could do was tell me how awful this paint is! He said he's had it under the heat lamps for almost a week and it still wont cure. He advised that he thinks this paint will come off in no time - slightest scratch, or power wash. He also noted that they couldn't polish finish the bonnet as it started marking and taking the paint off.

    He gave me a very long explanation on the types of paints, old and new, primers too. And from all he explained, I have no idea why I would chose to use The Paint Mans paints...

    Has anybody else had issues with this paint?
     
  2. dieseldog69

    dieseldog69 Well-Known Member LZIR Despatch Agent

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    What do you mean by this?

    Are you saying that the synthetic paint reacted with a base coat or a non compatible primer?

    I've only ever heard good things about their paints and even their series body panels.
     
  3. Ratae

    Ratae Well-Known Member

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    I'd suggest you need to take this up with The Paint Man & tell exactly what the issue is.
    I suspect your bodyshop is used to dealing with 2k paints & you've bought a synthetic enamel or something else which they have no idea what they're doing with.
    Getting a bodyshop to do paintwork & insisting they use materials supplied by you is a mistake. If you're going to use a bodyshop let them do the lot, prep, prime, paint & supply the paint & other materials they are familiar with.
     
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  4. Rorie

    Rorie Active Member

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    Absolutely, they are used to dealing with 2k paints. The guy explained to me that he has used enamel paints several times before as he does a lot of restoration painting as well as the usual damage repair.

    He spoke to me for about 40 mins again today about all the issues they have had with the paint not curing etc. He did, before he started, ask for various info which "all paint suppliers are legally obliged to supply", but The Paint Man didn't have this info and said they couldn't supply it.

    I'm going to call The Paint Man tomorrow to discuss. I don't know enough about paints to take a stance, but i know i have had issues with the paint not getting hard properly (perhaps normal for this paint) and then the paint shop expressed their concerns, so i thought i'd ask the question on here!

    All the panels were brought back to bare steel (some were new panels like the door skins). I primed as per The Paint Mans suggestion (spoke to him on the phone previously), used his primer and his paint too.

    Cheers
     
  5. Paul D

    Paul D Old, nackered 'n broke, but the Landy is fine . :) LZIR Despatch Agent

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    I recommended Paintman to someone, can't recall who, 'cos of the great service and getting my colour right even though I was only buying two rattle cans off him!!

    Having said that, I'm soon gonna get quite a lot more, 'cos it's so good!
     
  6. The Mad Hat Man

    The Mad Hat Man Well-Known Member LZIR Despatch Agent

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    It is important to use the correct thinners as not doing so could impair the high gloss finish or delay drying times.
     
  7. apeers

    apeers Member

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    be interested to see the outcome, recently spent a lot of money on paint with him to spray a project 90 used his paint, thinner, top coat and spray gun/brush cleaner. The paint even after 2 weeks is still 'soft' e.g. I can push my nail into it and leave a depression, which i'm slightly worried now as i'm about 50% the way through spraying everything and quite invested time and money into it.
     
  8. Rorie

    Rorie Active Member

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    That's exactly where I am! Down to clean metal, used his primers, thinners and paint and spoke a lot with him. Even stuff I painted months ago can still be marked with your nail!

    As soon as you even show the paint the polished, it seems to come off!

    I assumed it was just me, but When this body shop / paint shop tried it, he raised all the same issues. He had it under heat lamps etc and still never cured.

    His worry to me was that any stone chip or scratch would let water in and he expects the paint to come off.

    He also talked a lot about the primer. He said that it was really no use for sealing the metal. He said 2k primers grip well and isolate the metal from the environment. This stuff being 1k will allow water through no bother.
     
  9. apeers

    apeers Member

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    I havn't used his primer, I used Halfords rattle cans and POR 15 any steel first so cant comment, but it will be interesting to see what he says fingers crossed it will harden even if it takes a while i'm not bothered about polishing the clear coat until it all together but I don't want the paint to start marking as i'm assembling
     
  10. Rorie

    Rorie Active Member

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    Just spoke to The Paint Man. As before - very helpful guy.

    He explained that trying to force dry enamel paint isn't a good idea and that stale air (modern paint booths) also doesn't help - its better to have flowing air.
    He explained that whats probably happened (when I sprayed and when the paint shop sprayed) is that its gone on too thick, set on the top, but soft underneath. He said that time will probably be my friend here waiting for the paint underneath the 'skin' to vapor out and dry.

    I guess time will tell...

    I understand its a special type of paint, but with some panels I've had dry for months and they are still easy to mark.

    Oh, and he did say that you CANNOT polish these paints....so that would explain why it just came right off! haha.
     
  11. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    sounds like poor paint, ive used some 1 pack paint on a boat ,beautiful high gloss finish but comes of with a pressure washer,it never seemed to really set hard
     
  12. apeers

    apeers Member

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    guess il carry on and try and not to put the paint on too thick, which does make sense as the insude of the tub which has only 1 layer of gloss no top coat seems to be ok durability wise and doesn't seem as soft
     
  13. Ratae

    Ratae Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised he can't - or won't - supply the Technical Data Sheets (TDS) for the products he is selling & if that is true then I would suggest not buying from him as you don't know the correct application method/air pressure/fluid tip size/thinning/drying times etc & that's a recipe for disaster.

    ETA I worked in a motor factors in the mid 70s just before 2k came out.
    Paint then was either cellulose or synthetic enamel.
    The paint we sold was made by Valentine's & their synthetic enamels - Valrex for brush application & Valflash for spray application - were used mainly by the truck & bus/coach builders. It would be very very unusual for a car bodyshop to order other than cellulose.
    Hardening/curing was by air drying or slow baking in a booth not by chemical reaction as is the case with 2k so it did take time.
    I've never used infra red heat lamps on synthetic enamel paint, only acrylic & 2k. It's quick, so may well not be suitable for your paint although that's just speculation on my part & would best be answered by the paint's manufacturer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  14. Bobsticle

    Bobsticle De Villes Advocaat

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    I once worked with an old school coach work painter and all we talked about was enamels.
    Historically they all had the problem of skinning when applied and would often run or sag under the initial skin as brushed on which made going back into the area to rework impossible. Oh and quite right. You can’t polish enamels. Enamel classed a paint mainly on the size of the solids. It was basically the same as household gloss paint but the finer components gave a higher gloss finish.
    The rule of thumb with any traditional oil based paint is more thin coats and less thick ones. He told me on top class car finishes 16 costs wasn’t unusual. This became easier with spray equipment in the 50s as you could mist on coat after coat at a fraction of the depth with a paint brush.

    It sounds to me it’s been applied far too thickly without time for coats to dry fully in the air. This paint oxidises and heat isn’t a huge factor. The addition of terebine dryers can speed up the oxidisation but a drop too much and it can slow the process not speed it up. It’s a specialist product these days. Most car sprayers can’t use it any more and because it holds up to heavy application that’s what they do. Very wrongly.
    It looks like the skin is holding up the drying process and you can’t blame enamel for that or indeed the bloke that makes it. It’s down to pilot error I’m afraid but mostly I blame the cyclists.
     
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